The Couple's Table

So...a lot has changed!

• Season 1 • Episode 105

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We're trying a different format, pre-recorded! On today's episode, Tom and I wanted to share things that we've been thinking about the content creator space in the past few weeks.

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Website: http://www.heatherjustcreate.com

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SPEAKER_00

Hello and welcome. My name is Tom. And I'm Heather. And you're sitting at the Couples Table.

SPEAKER_03

The Couples Table is a live stream podcast here on the channel. Join us for better or worse. Oops, I said livestream podcast.

SPEAKER_00

I was wondering if you were gonna say that. Well, the thing that that was getting me was I realized while you the music was playing, the mics weren't muted, so you could hear like. No, I know.

SPEAKER_03

Anyway. Um So what are we doing, Tom?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I don't know. What I thought we were gonna restart it, but we don't have to. It's actually no, we're just going. We're going with it. Okay. Uh what we're doing right now is it's just it's pre-recorded because we just wanted to have a talk.

SPEAKER_03

We're trying a new thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We're trying a new thing.

SPEAKER_00

It's just a different dynamic when you have to focus when not have to, when you're focusing on a chat versus when you're having a discussion that can meander and take tangents and whatnot. So that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03

Just try a different format.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And uh basically there we've been having it's one of those things. We've been having like the discussions of stuff, and it's popped up multiple times as we're talking. Like, this should be an episode. This should be that. This would be a good topic. So it's kind of that. It's like a little catch-up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So just a little catch-up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. We mustered the courage to catch up. And now you can relish in the results.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, this is depending on how we like this format. I feel like this uh setup for how we're sitting right now is hard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, it's very hard to be side by side.

SPEAKER_03

I'm like so close to you right now. I love being close to you, but this is like hi.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I don't feel too close to you. I just like I don't know where to look, you know. But it's that's fine. And if you're listening to the audio, it's irrelevant.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

There we go.

SPEAKER_03

All right. So what are we talking about today, Tom?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. I thought it was like a bunch of thoughts that we've been having. Yeah. Well what the thing you were telling me right before you said, hey, we should record something, was to do with the idea that um when people become fans of something, it's their enthusiasm that pulls them in. And then sometimes there's like a super fandom that takes over, which for some reasons tends to then go negative and can then be almost discouraging. I don't know, that was the last thing we talked about.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

That was it, that was what's on my mind.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I was thinking because I I had to part of the reason why I wanted to record something is because I've kind of been off for the past two weeks because of PMDD. And I told Tom I was like, I feel like I need a ride partner to help kick my butt back into the rhythm of things.

SPEAKER_00

Just to knock the rest off a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. And then because Tom and I have been having so many conversations about um creator life, creator life and like I don't know, the internet and all of it. It's just it's kind of been it's just been interesting. I was gonna say like being on this side of things, but it's I'm I'm not sure like how much of a different side I've been on, but it's like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_03

I'll how about I think I feel like a lot has changed. I feel like a lot of the space has changed since the last time we did an episode.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I agree for both of us, even though our not even us, but just like well that's what I mean though, because there's different spaces of it's not uncommon for a space to change, but for like a larger group to change is or or like things as a whole to change is pretty unusual. Yeah. But I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's been, I don't know. I guess I've been having this thought of like I I feel like it's so much more accessible to be a full-time content creator, but I also feel like it is becoming more and more stressful that I don't know why anyone would like willingly sign up for this torture. And like I don't think that's sponsors' fault, audience's fault. I honestly think that it's because everything is algorithm-driven and everything is like the things that get the most attention aren't necessarily the most um like fulfilling or inspirational or you know they're not like positive in the ways that I'm seeking to consume and create. And I feel like that it for some reason it feels like it almost avalanched. Cause I we always talked about this, like the trends chasing and the shorts chasing and and all of these, you know, just yeah, like I I can't every single time YouTube emails me, it's like 1.5 billion something on shorts, like views on shorts, go do shorts. But I'm like, I feel like if you can't define why you want views, then you're just chasing dopamine. Like I feel like that's the the default answer. And unless you come up with something else, then it's something else. But if not, then if you cannot describe why it is that you need views, then to me it's just fill in the blank with dopamine.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it's I don't know. I know this is like there's a lot of things float floating in my head and it's not really like making sense. But um I I guess like you were kind of feeling like I have not been feeling great up until recently. Well, yeah, because you you've been kind of feeling like you know, the space has changed and you kind of feel like everyone's doing it a certain way that doesn't align with how you were doing it. But then also like I feel like the reason why that is happening is not the is not the creator's fault. And I don't think it's the platform's fault either.

SPEAKER_00

I just feel like a thing that I've noticed, which is very interesting, and this might sound negative, but so be it, maybe. Um is one thing I love about YouTube is everybody I've ever met who I know from YouTube is who they are, like who they are in person. Like you watch their channel or you watch their streams and you meet them in person, it's like, oh, it's the same, it's the same person.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And what I've been noticing lately is there are a number of people who, whether it's just a little bit or even maybe a little bit more, who I talk to one-on-one, and there's become more of a difference between the one-on-one that I see, which is kind of it's like the person and the persona. Yeah, there's like a bigger gap, more not just a bigger gap, but more frequently. Like it it seems like this is a more and more common thing that's happening. And I don't I don't know. I don't know the cause for it. I know that sounds very critical, and it it could be me misinterpreting things uh totally, but also like I don't know. At this point, I feel like I I I'm pretty good at if my gut is telling me something, there is a reason it's telling me that. Like I am picking up on something, I might be wrong about the reason or communicating it poorly, but there's something there, and so for me, what it felt like was being at like going to this cool party or something, and everybody's here having a good time, and then suddenly realizing like, wait, everybody left, or the party has totally changed, and I I didn't realize it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I mean, I think that's kind of where I'm coming from. It's is I feel I'm starting it's not starting to feel that. I do feel that there's just something like every time I go on some kind of platform, I'm just disappointed. Like in two minutes, I'm disappointed. And it's like, you know, it's not before it was like, okay, you know, in 2020, it was the doom scrolling. It was like, okay, I need to limit how much time I spend on the internet because I it's just too crazy with like you know, the COVID news and all the repercussions of that. Yeah, it's just so much. And but that was like that was there's a very definitive reason of like, okay, I I need to be aware of what's happening, but I I just have to protect myself in in like drawing boundaries. This though, like I can't even pinpoint why I feel so drained after two minutes of being on social media. And before it was like, okay, I had Heather Just Create, and that that, like, I don't know, every every all the community I'd built around that. Like, not just the people that I've connected with, but the people that I'm following. And I know why I kind of got like burnt out on that, but even with like the Heather just play stuff, it's like, I mean, this is what I was telling you before we recorded. It's like it was cool because everyone was talking about games, which I love talking about. Let's talk about games for hours and hours and hours. But I feel like when you have an algorithmically generated timeline for everybody, the things that just by default automatically rise to the top are just the hot takes that no one asked for about hot takes that nobody asked for. And and it's like before, I think 2020, 2021, it was hot takes that no one asked for. Yeah, it's now hot takes that no one asked for about hot takes that no one asked for. And it's just everyone's just everything is a statement, everyone's arguing about something. There's always something we criticize, like we can't just like things, and it's it's disappointing, it's discouraging, and it makes I don't know, it's just it it's it sucks because like I understand why that works, you know. Like if you if if talking about those things and making those kinds of statements gets you a bunch of views and lean into it, you know, like I see why people do that, but um I it's just draining. Like I'm kind of tired and and like you, I'm not trying to criticize anybody, but so there's I'm trying to like I don't even know what my point is. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00

I you don't have to have a point, but it's just a feeling. Yeah, what what I feel is that all that is true, and where I've been approaching it, what I've been trying to do, because I was feeling just kind of low and bummed. It was getting to the point where I was feeling like I was doing something wrong. Like I was having the same feeling, not that I ever really got in like trouble at previous jobs or anything, but if there was ever like a you know constructive feedback or even like a boss calling you into their office and you think it's something bad, even if it's not kind of that same feeling of like I did something wrong, except it's about this thing where like I'm the one in charge of it, and that sucked, and I really didn't like that feeling. And so the thing that I've been trying to focus on lately, which I have no idea if this is like good or not, it could be a horrible experience that ruined or experiment that ruins everything. But what it is is to really, really double down on the how would I do things way uh and do things that I think are fun. Like before this, I was showing you these goofy graphics I made for a future live stream I want to do, which I spent hours on those. I don't even know when the live stream's going to be. It's I put more time into that than like is some stuff for regular video because it was what I wanted to do. And trying to do different styles and different designs, and I think it will make for a really fun stream that is going to be a little different than other streams, just by nature of kind of being created in a vacuum in a way. And like I've been trying to embrace that more, which I think is I hope is a really good thing. It's fun for me, so I guess like most importantly, it's it makes things fun for me to decide. I want to make this video this way, I'm gonna do this, I want to make a video about this, I'm gonna do it this way. And you know, I don't know if anyone watching would even notice a difference, but me making it, there's a huge difference in the approach to things, and I think that that's um that's been really helpful because I don't it's almost like when I feel have the feeling of wow, this you know, whatever, Twitter is a nightmare right now. I'll just close that out and open up Photoshop and work on some graphics. Like I I've sort of been every time I have that feeling of like this is making me feel bad, I will just close it and then make something for my own stuff, or like you know, update this thing on my website. Like, I'll just spend the time I would spend feeling bad about this or whatever, and just make something that I think is interesting. Yeah, and I've been trying there's an episode, I don't even know how to approach this, so it's probably not gonna be the one I record this week, but I have an idea for a podcast episode for this season of my podcast. Um, that's something to do with like, can a tech channel be art? Because, you know, there there's there's that line of like you're making a product review or a tutorial or something, but could that be artistic? Could that be creative? And I think the easy answer is yes, but the harder answer is how, and what is the difference between that versus like somebody wants to make a short film or something, which is like clearly an art thing or you know, a music video or whatever. And I I'm trying to like just explore that a little bit, which I think is really fun, and I think at least for me, is something it's different for me, and I think it makes the stuff a little bit different too. Um which then hopefully like the goal is to make something that people enjoy. So if you know, if I'm getting annoyed by all the negative stuff I'm seeing, maybe I can make something that isn't negative, right? And then people will not have they'll get to have that instead of something negative, and maybe which is like would be almost like the ultimate thing, is somebody would see that and get an idea for like, oh, I could do my own thing this way, not that it's the same, but the idea of oh yeah, I can't you got inspired somehow, exactly, yeah, and so now they're making their own positive thing instead of doom scrolling. Yeah, I don't know. That's what I've been like thinking about the past several weeks. I like that. It's been fun, and it's been interesting too because I was talking to you earlier. Um, I've been really into aviation YouTube. Yeah, that's why I was talking about different genres and stuff because it's like these issues aren't there in that one. They have their own drama and things, but like it's it's very uh interesting. But I've been watching a lot of aviation channels, and the today I was watching or listening to it was a panel from a big in Oshkosh, there's a big like fly-in air show kind of thing convention every year. It's huge, like tens of thousands of people there, thousands of planes fly in. Um, and they there was a big panel with like a lot of the aviation YouTubers, like the the more well-known ones, which wasn't even all of them, and I there must have been 25 or 30 people on the panel. It was mainly just a QA panel. So between them, I mean, millions of subscribers between them, hundreds of millions of views between them. It was a 45-minute discussion. I don't think anyone on the panel was under 30 or was over 30. No, under 30. Under 30. I don't know math. Everyone was a little older.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, when you told me that you said under 30. You said that everyone was young, and I was like, oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Sorry, yeah, no, no, no. No one on the panel was under 30. They were all 30 and up. 30 and up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it was fascinating because a lot of the questions that people asked were about YouTube, and like, how do you start a YouTube channel? When do you do this and other thing? But not once in the 45-minute thing with all of these people, hundred millions of subscribers between them, nobody mentioned Mr. Beast. One person mentioned YouTube Shorts and TikTok, I think, and it was really just the idea of like um multi-purpose. No, it was like uh you can't transfer your audience. If you have a YouTube audience, you're not gonna pull into TikTok, vice versa. Um, and if you have an audience that likes you for long form, you know, they're like, I make a 23 to 30 minute video every week. None of the people who watch that are gonna want to watch a 20-second thing. Like, it's not worth like it was just immediately like, nope, not my thing for them. And uh, it was so interesting because that is the opposite. By all measures, they're very successful, and a lot of them have gotten not just sponsored videos, but the sponsorship includes like upgrading parts of your plane and stuff, which is like a hundred thousand dollars to do. So big, like like successful full-time channels, kind of bucking the trends. So we do long form content, most of it's filmed with GoPros and action cameras. There's a couple people who who have like higher-end cameras, but by the nature of like flying a plane, you can't be filming. They're like, we set up our camera, we plan it all at home, set up the camera, hit record, and then forget the cameras are there until we're done flying because safety. So you're like very different, it's very different, and it works. And it's been fascinating to me because it's just like ah, it's such a different approach to the same thing. And the same thing goes with like when I hear all the complaints about, you know, I make a video about GoPros, and people tell me how terrible GoPros are, and then I'm like, well, here's a whole different use case that like this person's not considering. New iPads just came out, and people are just like poo-pooing all over them. Like, oh, why does this one need to exist and this model's not there? And I'm like, well, here's a giant community because iPads are FAA approved to be in planes, and you can use the GPS and the the logging and all the you know, all the info that's on them. Uh, but you don't have a lot of room in a plane, so getting something that's like it just made me realize that so much of at least what I have been seeing is is so from one perspective. And these things where it's like, dude, the Apple doesn't need the iPad error. This is stupid. Why does this even exist? It's like, oh, actually, like I want to get one because I need a cellular iPad and it seems to be the perfect size and it needs to fit like in this very small area and fit like you know what I think it is.

SPEAKER_03

I think like this reminds me of um like what because you know, we're 1985, so we are that micro generation that grew up with the internet, and I think like I think one of the coolest parts of the internet was that like it was new, you had to figure it out, no one knew why this feature was here, and you kind of we just a lot of it was what if I dot dot dot. Yeah. And now I think it's not what if I dot dot dot. It's like this is how it's been done, so this is how we're gonna do it, and it doesn't matter like in it to what end.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I feel like I feel like it's so much less about conversation and dialogue and more about like transaction. Whereas like, you know, I think about when like how we met, it's like it doesn't I don't I always feel weird bringing up us as an example, but I I do feel like because it's it's just so one in a million, but it's an example of like genuine human interaction. Exactly, through the internet where we would have never met otherwise. We had zero, zero, zero, zero mutual friends. Like there's no way, despite how much we have in common, there's just no way we want to cross paths, and like I feel like it's I feel like that that frontier feeling of like this is the internet, I'm entering a chat room, everyone like it's like a discovering a new forum of all these people that like your thing, and it's like so exciting. It's like, oh my gosh, they get it, but instead of like welcoming what do you think? How do I think? Let's evolve the thoughts and stuff. Now it's just like it's like everyone's just the the default emotion, I feel like is defensiveness, and it's like it goes back to that, like um, you know, where you're already apologizing, giving disclaimers for some for without even like saying anything, like you're already trying to and I and I'm curious like you know how how that is affecting how people communicate because I feel like I don't know, it just I I know this is like I'm having trouble like explaining how I'm thinking, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

It kind of reminds me of like I lost it. Your phone is right there. I remember I remember specifically iPods are the example, but to make it slightly more modern, I'll use the iPhone as an example. 2007, the first one came out. It didn't have an app store, it couldn't take video, um, and one page of installed default apps, and that's it. That was the first smartphone. And obviously it was amazing and people loved it. And then the very next year was like, now there's an app store, now you can do video, now you can have the two pages of apps or whatever. Um, and the next year, like every every every year was this big, like huge leap forward. Like the reason I think of the iPod is like it's a thousand songs in your pocket, and it was this little thing with an old Game Boy. LED screen, and that's it. And then suddenly it was like, now it, you know, by adding three more gigabytes, we've like quadrupled the storage capacity or the song capacity of it. And now there's a color screen. Now it can do like every year it was just like, oh my God. I like things are insane. And then it got to a point like phones, for example, tell me the actual difference between an iPhone 11, 12, 13, 14.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but now it's like the reaction is just like, oh, it doesn't do this, it doesn't do this, it doesn't do this. So that's that's not good enough.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. My point, that's exactly my point, is the the four the leap, there's no leaping anymore.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

People got accustomed to the leaping because every year it's like something new is gonna happen, some big thing is gonna happen. This new platform is discussing people are figuring out new ways to use these platforms, and once things mature, that kind of stops and everything becomes like iterative versus like revolutionary.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And so what that means on platforms is everything becomes optimized for views and for algorithms, and then people just start adapting, adapting to that.

SPEAKER_03

And I think the thing that's so fascinating about the aviation YouTube is that it sounds like it in in the grand scheme of things, it's late to the game. You know, I feel like it's a space that uh now has a you know established panel of content creators, but but for whatever reason, maybe you know, there weren't that many aviation YouTube creators because you just didn't know. Like the the you know, they're either over 30 or like not on TikTok or not making YouTube videos.

SPEAKER_00

And then well, what's funny is a lot of them have been doing it for so long, for seven, eight, fifteen years. Like you can go to their channels and it's like you know, video, it's the video is literally just GoPro one like shaking like crazy, looks like it's having a seizure in the back of the plane because there's no stabilization. It's like landing at an airport, uploaded 13 years ago or something, um, and then it evolved and kind of became something. Um, but I it's almost like it evolved separately from the niches that I'm interested in, which is probably true for other things, like I don't know, beauty or fashion or whatever. Like I think when niches are certain so far apart, they they grow and evolve separately. And it's been interesting to sort of see that. Um, but it's also been interesting to see how they approach it. This was the thing I was gonna say earlier when I was talking about the creativity part of it, um, because you and I recorded an episode for my podcast where it's about authority versus enthusiast. And there's a lot of baggage that immediately comes with telling someone how to do something. Yeah. I'm gonna show you how to use this microphone. Automatically, like, who are you to be telling me? You don't know what you're talking about, versus versus like things where I think people learn a lot from is just watching someone do something. Like, if you were to tell me, I'm gonna show you how to use Final Cut Pro, it would be different than me sitting next to you while I watch you edit a video. And if I sit next to you and watch you edit a video, I would learn a lot because I would see how you're doing it and how you're what you're deciding to do and why you're doing it. I would bet you, like literally, I would learn something right now if I watched you edit in Final Cut Pro, and you wouldn't have to tell me, I'm gonna teach you how to do this. Right. And so what I've been noticing in the aviation channels that that are some of my favorite and that are some of the most successful, at least in terms of numbers, uh, are ones that like they focus on a story. I'm using quotes like broadly because it's such a cliche, like story is king. And I don't mean like the story will literally be like, we're going to fly to eat lunch, or um we need to take the plane really far away, so we're gonna have to stop at you know two airports along the way, and that's gonna be it.

SPEAKER_03

Versus here's how you do this.

SPEAKER_00

But right, versus so, okay. So, for example, the one I'm thinking of, I watched a video where it was like um summer picnic was like the story, and basically like, oh no, no, it was formation flying. There was two groups of people in Cessna, this one big group of people. They had two planes and they had set it up so they could fly in formation, take off together, fly in formation. Uh, they were in Indiana and they were gonna go to a grass runway land, and they had brought a pizza with them. So the story was we're gonna go eat this pizza because it was like the first nice day of summer or something. Um, and they were literally trying to like, can we fly in formation together, go where we need to go, and get there while the pizza's still warm. Oh wow. Um, and it but it wasn't set up like a Mr. Beast video, it was a very calm kind of thing. So that, I mean, that in and of itself sounds charming, but not necessarily like super entertaining. But it's made in a way that's interesting. And along the way, without them telling me about it, I learned that one of the planes was bigger and smaller. So if the bigger plane put its flaps down when it takes off, it could take off in the same distance as the small plane so they could take off together, where normally they would take off at different times. I learned that when one plane needs to cross over to the other, it needs to lower its altitude so it doesn't get caught in the like the wake turbulence from the other plane. I learned when you land on a grass runway, um, it's very important to like keep the nose wheel up as much as possible because of all the bumps and the rough stuff. Like I ended up learning a ton. That wasn't what the video set out to do. And that's how like all those are is like here's the video. It's about this simple thing. We're not trying to teach you anything about promise you, and that you're going to see people enjoying flying and eating lunch. But along the way, I actually learned a ton. Um, and to me, that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I've been trying to figure out how I can like do a version of that where it is so much more of the enthusiast, like, uh, I'm gonna do a thing.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And it's it's I'm gonna show, I'm gonna let you watch me do a thing or or you know, take you along as I do a thing, and you'll probably pick up something along the way. But I'm not going to sit there and say, the best way to do this.

SPEAKER_03

This is how you do this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that that, like, I don't know, I think that that's a potential solution to that feeling of like that feeling of negativity, that feeling of criticism, that feeling of you know, it's hard because it's also like that stuff just performs well. Like I know. You make a video of my favorite microphone, um the worst. Yeah, it's not gonna do well. But yeah, my one of my best performing videos of the year is called Is the Blue Yeti Really That Bad? Which is ironically about how it's not. That's why I was like, well, it is a question, so I'm not saying the blue yeti is that bad. Yeah. I asked the question, is the blue yeti really that bad? And I of course I know people are gonna have opinions and they're gonna answer that question. Um, but that's about as negative as I can go. But if you say, like, you know, I mean, some of the like things have gotten aggressive almost to the point of the Oh my gosh, like I can't even it's it's it's insane.

SPEAKER_03

Where and like I feel like you know, this conversation that we just had, like this, you know, like what you just described about the aviation thing is like such a cool tidbit, like a a great creator to creator, very helpful. I see how I can you know I can take this little piece and try to incorporate it into my creative process, and I feel like it would, you know, I feel like there there's something to go off of there, and it has nothing to do with like oh, this is gonna, you know, this is the guaranteed way to get more viewers and yeah, like no idea about that.

SPEAKER_00

It's not a strat, it's a creative process thing.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like there's it's that conversation that like doesn't matter anymore. It's like everyone's just talking about and I I also know that you know my experience of the internet is not everyone's experience of the internet, of course. Like who knows, but I don't know. My my impression right now is that it's like I just I just have this like sinking feeling of dread. Because I because I I I've been telling Tom this a lot that there's a bubble popping. Right. We've talked about this.

SPEAKER_00

The way I described it was which maybe this has changed. I described if you've ever seen slow motion video of a water balloon being popped, like someone picks it with a needle. The balloon, the plastic of the balloon immediately disappears like in one frame. But there's one. But the water is still like in the shape of the water balloon. It's like when Wiley Coyote runs over the edge of the cliff and is like running in the air before he looks down and then he falls.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and it felt like when you were describing that, it was that. Like you're like, I think there's a bubble popping.

SPEAKER_03

It felt like you were the balloon, like something happened, but it hadn't yet like and I I I don't I don't know if it has popped or we're we're still like in stasis or we're falling and we just don't feel it, you know, it's like the frogs or whatever. Like I feel like there's some kind of shift that's happening.

SPEAKER_00

There is one thing like I I it's scary and it it's frustrating and scary, and I don't like it. But one thing about it though, we've talked about this a lot, is like um some of the really long time super objectively successful creators like Marquez Brownley, I just teen, like the people have been doing it since pre-2010. Um they've had to, it's been interesting how I've said this many times, they've they're still themselves. If you watch uh Marquez Brownley video from this week, and you go back and watch an old, old, old one, it's clearly the same guy. His like skills, techniques, you know, access to stuff has improved, but it's just clearly the same person. But along the way, in the however many years is between those videos, he has had to adapt and evolve multiple times because he's been doing it for so long. And I've always said like it's fascinating to me how they can do that because so many people are the you know, I do this one thing, I do it really well, and then it's not interesting, you know, it falls out of favor and it disappears. So, how does somebody stay true to themselves yet adapt and evolve to continuously stay relevant? And part of me feels like after what me doing this for five years, you doing it for six, this is maybe our first version of that, where it's like there is a big shift, and now it is a like a moment to adapt if you want to keep going.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But you you know, there's no there's no guidebook for what that is.

SPEAKER_03

It's funny. Well, yeah, that's the thing. This is what another thing is that there's never been a guidebook, and everyone tries to pretend that there is, like there's some secret, and it's like the secret is that there's no secret, which is why I think my impulse is to go like, okay, well, what do what do I think would be fun and positive and fulfilling? Yeah, because that and I'm just gonna do that and time. That's the thing that like how do you get someone to be interested in something else? Just do that, you know, like that that's yeah, you can't wait.

SPEAKER_00

It's like chasing a trend. By the time you've been like, there's this Harlem shake going around, we should make a video. It's like that trend is over. Like, if you're if you've already recognized it, now you're trying to chase it, it's past.

SPEAKER_03

That and also you're just defined by that, so like you can't do anything else. And I don't know, it's just I I don't know why it bothers me. You know, like it's whatever, just make my own videos, who cares? But but it's also like this is a space that I you know advocate for for so long that I love and I like being a part of, and it's just it's like I don't know, it's weird to see it turning into something that so the way that I feel is there's been a thing, a recurring theme with you and I many times over the years where like we want something, it doesn't exist, so let's make it. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00

Right?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, sorry, I just had a thought and then I don't want to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_00

You can have your thought.

SPEAKER_03

No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'll go after. Sure, just don't forget your thought.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Like, for example, like you know, it's it's everything from like that's why the just create more community is there. Um, there've been so many times where it's like, I wish there were a local meetup thing where we can talk about it in person. And it got to a point where we were recognizing like I want to be a part of something. There's certain things where it's like I want to, I want this, I want to be a part of it, but I don't want to be the one that has to make it. Like, I really I know I'm tired in a lot of ways of like I don't want to be the person that has to put the thing together. Like, I want to be the person who gets to show up to the thing and like enjoy it, and I don't want to have to build it. The one the biggest exception to that for me at least is my YouTube channel because I feel like that's the best opportunity. It's almost the opposite where the idea of getting to be the thing that I want to be, make the thing that I want to be, is exciting. And I think that in a situation where there are people who are searching for something or trying to figure out how to navigate a transition or things are going down a road that you don't want to go down, I think it's a really good time to actually embrace that. It's like with your channel, for example, you know, there's lots of stuff in the gaming space that's weird or negative or whatever. But I think you you you have been and you could continue to be a really refreshing reprieve from that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and people don't really know that that exists.

SPEAKER_03

It's such a weird thing to give me hope, though. Like I because it's like that's the light, is that like you you stand out because you're being yourself because everyone else is trying to chase a but I think it's everyone else is not ever and this everyone else is a very loose term of everyone. Yeah, like who are we talking about? Yeah, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00

Many people or many creators or whatever. They don't like don't know, they just see what they see. The same reason everyone had a gorilla pod on a camera back in 2016. It's what you see, it's what you get.

SPEAKER_03

It's like that person who messaged me.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Like I don't want to I feel bad. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So they're just got an interesting message from somebody. Uh the way I'll describe it as um it was a person who is a creator who um I I guess the the way to put it would be clearly the thing that they're making. It doesn't seem to be the thing that like it's almost like they're making what they think they should be making. Yes. Um and it's it was kind of insane. But under it, the person actually had a lot when we broke it down, we're like, they're doing this. They have an incredible skill set. They're like really talented.

SPEAKER_03

This is crazy.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that's the perfect example.

SPEAKER_03

It's like if you can take all, if you look at the trending page and you have you just take study the top 10 videos of the trending page and incorporate every single thing that you see, like that's the video they make.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's almost like an AI wrote this script and edited it for you.

SPEAKER_03

Total insanity.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It it really It was total insanity.

SPEAKER_00

It really was. I'm just thinking of specific moments now and it it I'm not laughing at the video, but it's like Yeah, I don't want to like, I'm not trying to put that in the right. I'm not laughing at that, but I'm I'm laughing at the absolute absurdity of like I know why you did this, but if you step back as a person and just look at this, like I know, yeah, like I know that that is what is getting c clicks, right?

SPEAKER_03

Like that's what's getting views, but like what is what is the point of this? Like what is the takeaway? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

That's I mean, that's what like Peter Lindgren, um, he just I showed you a thing yesterday, he has been doing a three-week experiment with reels, and this was actually real interesting because he's been making these little reels, uh, basically about his camera gear, and they're really cool. Really cool. There, it's like he's he's just been doing all these really simple, like in-camera, hard cut, final cut transitions to make stuff look really neat. Like, you know, this camera turns into this other camera, he smashes a lens down into his desk. Really simple, you know, 10-second things that would be perfect for reels. And he's been doing two to three of them a day for three weeks. And his uh his YouTube channel, his Instagram account exploded, and he has all the data. Like the account was dead, like nobody was finding it, interacting with it, nothing. It's it's just such a perfect line of like every time he did more, it brought in more and was promoted more and became more and more and more, and the chat the thing grew more and more. And at the end of it, his conclusion was I hate this, and I'm gonna stop and he deleted Instagram off his phone.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, he did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Not his account, but like he's like, Yeah, I'm just gonna use this as email on my desktop, is basically his thing because he's like, Yeah, my my theory was right that if I do this, it's gonna grow my account. I don't want to do that though. So that is what I need to do to grow this account, but I'm not interested in doing that to grow this account, so I'm not going to anymore. Um and I think that's that's a really important thing, is like this will get you engagement, this will get you views, this will do all that, sure. But like, do you and service to what then? Yeah, do you even like at that point do you want that? Like, does it matter? And I don't you and that's everybody's question to answer on their own, but it's you know right.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But for me, the way I answer that is if I cannot, if I cannot succinctly define why I am doing this, then it's just dopamine. And I don't I can't get it from that. Like I refuse. I don't want it, I don't want to get it from that.

SPEAKER_00

That's probably a good thing to recognize.

SPEAKER_03

And that's just for me, you know. Like I'm not gonna judge anybody else, whatever, you know. But the thing I was gonna tell you was I know this would never happen, but I listened to the most recent episode of Criminal, my favorite podcast, which it's fantastic by the way. It's called Ghost World, and it's about um a BBC show that I think was done in like 1992, like early 90s.

SPEAKER_02

Way early.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So before um the documentary style fiction, like before Blair Witch.

SPEAKER_00

Before Blair Rich reality TV, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like they must have been the first ones to do it, to do some kind of like this is reality, but it's all staged.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um and then it's on PBC, so it's like this is for sure reality, right? Um so it's fascinating, and they they look at other cases where um were both on TV and radio, like they they did a piece on Kevin and Bean, who they did something similar in the early 90s. Um and everyone thinks, like everyone who's working on it is like, this is so obviously fake. Like that's the joke. But then when you're the consumer, you're like, you know, I mean, so this is sad, okay. But one of the someone's kid committed suicide because they were so scared of what they ghost. Yeah, like they were mentally disabled and didn't understand and thought it was real, yeah, and thought it was real, it was so scared, and you know, so like it, it's it's just interesting because what I took away from that was like it it's like a I can see this with the internet, right? Like that happened in in TV and radio, and there those were the learning experiences of like we have this power and it has this influence. And the regardless of what your intention is, this is how people receive it and the perception and the the consequences of that. But there's a governing board, right? There's uh an FCC, there's a there's journalists, there's whatever. There's there's some kind of like let's regulate. Yeah, there's some kind of that, right? But I feel like the internet and everything I love about it has been able to run amok unchecked for so long that like I feel like it's one of those, um, I think this was in the expanse where you do that like tit for tat or whatever it's called, where if you you can run like a computer simulation and eventually every possibility makes it so that like evil wins or something. Like if you have good versus bad, and like you know, I I can't remember what the the thing is. I I'm sure someone knows someone, one person knows what I'm talking about. But like I feel like if you if you introduce the internet and just like in every possible case scenario, every timeline of the earth, like it it all ends up just going to the fan. Because I I feel like there's just it's if it if you allow it to run like unchecked, there's no governing body, it's it I feel like it's already at the point where it's out of everyone's hands. So like the platforms are I mean, you know, they're all like trying to feel like they have control by telling the creators to focus on shorts, you know, and then like here's monetization tools. Look, we're totally thinking of you. And it's like, well, are you though? Like, you know, when Twitch or whatever is taking 80% of your cut. And like it's crazy because there's no way, there is absolutely no way where there can be a governing body because it's a global thing.

SPEAKER_00

Like, it's yeah, I wouldn't want that to me. I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Well, here's what I would want. Like, in it if I had it my way, what I would want to do, and this is one of those things, like, okay, it doesn't exist. I wish I could start it, but I just don't want to be the person to carry it out is like I wish there were some kind of Um, I've I've said this before, like a chamber or a membership or some kind of seal, like like seed certified or whatever. So, okay, this you know, this building meets these regulations. It it does this, it saves this amount of energy, it's installed all these like things to make it like as energy efficient as possible. So bam, you got the seal. Like, I'm not trying to regulate your content, but by by abiding to these guidelines, you also like you take pride in integrity and and the responsibility of having an audience and whatever your niche should be. Yeah, because right now, like I think that the only governing that is happening is self-governing, right? The community governs itself. But that that is just such a stupid way to do it because now it's just rage clicks. Like it's just it's just drama channels commenting. And now we've got now, you know what the self, the self-policing has led to? React, like it's just literally people just taking someone's video 100% start to finish and then watching it, and then somebody else watching them watch it.

SPEAKER_00

Like it's just react to the react.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and it's just like I I don't like that's that's the extent of the content that is being turned out right now. I'd be curious. I'd love to see, you know, I wish I wish YouTube and Instagram and all these platforms would would you know every month put out like a here's what was uploaded the most. And I I just it's all con I to me right now, it just seems like so much content that's like how much effort did you even put into this? Like, whatever. I don't know who am I to judge, but it just feels weird.

SPEAKER_00

That's where I would blame an algorithm because that's where the the there is no I don't know, you know. I think of like some of the high-level educational YouTube channels that are out there, and when they make a video about something or a documentary about something, and it's done really well, their description is just filled with sources, or they will they will link to like a Google Doc that has all kinds of sources and updates and whatever, and it's like you don't have to agree with it or whatever, but any person can go to that and then see where their information is coming from, how they came to these conclusions.

SPEAKER_03

So, like for my little membership thing, like what I would wish is that okay, if at any point in your creative process you are citing some kind of fact or whatever, like cite the source in your video description, you agree to do that, you know? And I and like I feel like it would mean a lot. Like I wish YouTube would do something like that, you know. Like I I would even pay, like I would pay to show, hey, I have stake in this.

SPEAKER_00

Or go through like a training thing.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. Like, let me agree, let me take pride in what I'm doing and like I care about it, and I I I have a vested interest, but I also like I care about my community.

SPEAKER_00

It's not just the cool thing about that would actually be. I love this idea, honestly. Because the cool thing about it would be that it it shouldn't be numbers based. So, you know Right.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. Because someone who's just starting a channel from scratch could also be able to they could abide by the same guidelines and start like that from scratch.

SPEAKER_00

And then it's like Yes, your 10 subscriber channel could have the the seal or whatever next to it because you you went through everything, you agreed to everything, and you understand it.

SPEAKER_03

And like there's a sense of responsibility, it's the same thing, like okay, so I think another reason why I started thinking about this is because freaking I'm just gonna throw his name out there. His name is Asmungold. He is I I got introduced to him because he's one of the used to be one of the biggest Final Fantasy XIV creators, is now just a personality channel. At this point, kind of like PewDiePie started out with gaming. Asmongold is so big, he can talk, he's just people listen no matter what. Talk about whatever. He's on Twitch and and everything on YouTube is just clips. So this guy streams all day talking about everything. So he's he's just a personality channel channel at this point. He said he tweeted something freaking three days ago that just pissed me off to high heavens.

SPEAKER_00

Like, I you told me that, but I didn't ask you what it was.

SPEAKER_03

And so did you find it?

SPEAKER_00

I found something, but I don't know if this was it. And I wasn't gonna ask you because I didn't want to bring up the bad feeling.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so the thing that pissed me off was what actually let me pull it up because I really don't want to misquote. And what if I was just talking about it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, let me decide sources. You just do some uh it'd be interesting too for that if for that licensing certification, whatever, if there was some way like I guess when you upload a video, it gets reviewed for monetization. It could be the same thing, like reviewed for I don't know, like you have to keep your thing. Oh, this was the one I saw.

SPEAKER_03

Should people under 18 be able to make accounts on social media websites? Weighing the positives versus negatives. I can't see how access to social media for underage people is a net positive. Between the risk of abuse, psychological damage, and bullying, I don't think it's worth it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

This is an example of like a hot take that nobody asked for. And I love the discourse. Like I can talk about this all day, right? But the but no, but you making this statement and knowing that people are going to read it and and just automatically agree with you because of who you are makes it so that we're not really having a dialogue here, right? This is also the same person who is like, um, this is also the same person who m did a whole live stream about how I can't believe Twitter allows this to happen on their platform. And it was a girl who was basically naked, like literally just covering the itty-biddies and like doing very suggested stuff. That's okay, but then there's someone over here who does something very minor and is banned off the platform. And he showed the stream and then used that in the thumbnail for his thumbnail. Like you're literally just doing the same thing. I forgot why I even brought this up.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I mean, I think I don't remember. Oh, oh, because I was talking about the like the check mark and the verification in a small channel, it's not based on numbers of followers. Because, excuse me, when somebody does have a verified check mark next to their name, all of that should mean is that this person isn't verified to be the person that they say they are. That's literally it. Like, especially as oftentimes it's larger accounts because when someone's larger, they'll potentially have more people imitating them, and so the verification is like, no, this is the real person. Like, well, that's really all it means, nothing to do with credibility, but it has become a credibility badge. Right. And yes, that's why, and it's the number of times I get taken aback by it when I see someone share something, usually criticizing it, but it'll be some with a verified check mark saying some absolutely absurd, like horrible, I don't know, transphobic thing or just super ignorant thing or whatever. And and you know, obviously they're being criticized, that's why it's it's even popping up in my thing at all. But realizing, like, oh yeah, that check mark doesn't mean anything, it just means yeah, that you are that person who's saying this horrible thing versus like you were saying, uh a seal or something that sort of I like that idea because not everyone has to do it. If you don't want to do that or you don't think you need to or whatever, you still business as usual. Yeah. But if you want to, if you want to sort of say, like, no, I'm holding myself to the standards and exactly.

SPEAKER_03

You are holding yourself, you agree to these, like, to this standard.

SPEAKER_00

It's almost like going to a, I don't know, like a peer-reviewed paper versus a Wikipedia article. Like, you know, it's almost like that kind of a difference. Like, there's nothing inherently wrong with the Wikipedia article, but for people who want for people who care about, you know, understanding like where that even came from, here, here's a really reliable source that has been like vetted. And that I I kind of love that idea.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and the more I think about it, the more I'm like, you know, it's it's I I know every platform see this is why it would never work because well the logistics behind it and then the politics that would get involved in the butt like you know, because YouTube has had a YouTube certified program, but that's just like how no how well you know their platform, right? And has nothing to do with what you create.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and then there's of course the verified, but there would need to be like an independent third party committee or board or something. Yeah. Like I don't know how like a doctor is, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, this is this. Sorry. Okay, oh, thank god I came back to this. I was like, why did I bring up that Asmund Gold thing? Because I don't want to just make it seem like I'm complaining about his stuff. The reason why I brought it up was like, um, oh shit, I'm gonna lose it again. Um, sorry. Um brought it up like a doctor. I'm gonna pause. We're gonna pause. Okay, I remembered. Okay, so okay, the reason why that that stance pissed me off is because I feel that abstinence is not the answer. And we've talked about this with social media, like the first day we met, right? It's like, oh, you young'ins, get off your phone or whatever. And I feel like that particular take, I'm sure Asman is a nice guy or whatever, nothing against him, but I feel that like just remove it because we don't understand it and whatever is not the way to go about it. Whereas if you if what I feel like is is always better is education. Yes, it's education, it's like learning, learning how to protect yourself and others using this tool, a tool that can be used for better good.

SPEAKER_00

Understand how it can be used, you know, like yeah, because if you just give that to them so someone turns 18 and now they have access to all this stuff suddenly.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that and like how many people I mean, you're a freaking former high school teacher. I can I can talk about how much good the internet has done for young people. Like, I used to be what half my career was youth advocacy and youth empowerment. I mean, volunteering, you know, feeling like you're not the only gay person at your school because there's other, you know, I I was, I think it was criminal I was listening to. This one lesbian would just call this gay bar every night just to hear other gay people existing and having fun. Just so that they would leave the phone off the hook just so they can hear the atmosphere of gay people having fun. That's how it was like decades ago. Now you can go on Instagram and be like, Pride Day, everyone can announce the whatever. There, there's so many, like, you know, if you have a symptom you can't tell your parents, you can go to, you know, I know we shouldn't all be Dr. Google or whatever, but like there's so many good things that that I feel like happens with social media. And maybe that's because I had the privilege of working with teens in the context of them using it positively. Right. I don't have teens of my own. I'm sure if like, I'm sure if we had kids or whatever, like I would see a different side of it where, you know, well, that's the education component. Yeah, they're on the phone more than they are looking at me, whatever.

SPEAKER_00

That's the thing with my students that would always happen is like, because you know, obviously, like online bullying, social media bullying is a very real thing. And it's always interesting to me because to be like, okay, I don't know, whatever Snapchat stagram, whatever app they were using, that it's like, oh, this person's like bullying me on there. I'm like, why are you guys even connected on there? Like, why are you following them? Like, why did you bring your bully into your bedroom? And then you're like, now they're like treat me, like, don't let them into that space, but they don't even understand exactly.

SPEAKER_03

And so that's that was my whole point is like I feel like not only agreeing to to set of standards, but also the education component of like what these tools even mean, these the impact of it, and like, you know, if there were some kind of program that you had to go through, we can talk about all these like kind of interesting. It's kind of like when you go to law school or you know, become a doctor, they study these like significant cases that have happened in history so that the precedent has been set. It's obviously not, you know, everything is going to be case by case, but at least there's like these defining moments that have kind of shifted shifted culture, and like we if we're all agreeing to these set of standards of like this is what we're trying, this is the spirit of what we're trying to do, then like that that should be enough to go on versus like it's weird how I'm also a YouTube creator, and so is that person who is just uh re-uploading someone else's content.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's like, okay, does that mean you're a seventh grader who's been you went to a dance together, or does that mean you're 45 years old and you've been together for 15 years?

SPEAKER_03

Like it it's hard because it's like I I I want it, it's this is something like I take so much pride in, and it's hard. It feels like it's just getting away from me and it's like discouraging. But I don't I want I want to have the same pride about it, you know, and and I yeah, I I wish I just this is the ADHD in me. I wish I didn't care. Who cares? Heather, go make your videos. Like, why do you why are you even thinking about this?

SPEAKER_00

But I think that that's the middle, like it's yes, it's like trying to contain the ocean at a certain like it's too big.

SPEAKER_03

It's too big, it's gone. Yeah, like I feel like the you know the dam broke, whatever, but I I still if I had it my way, like if I won the lottery, I would totally try to build some kind of not necessarily a governing body, you know, like that that wouldn't be the I'm not trying to limit free speech or anything like that, but it's more of like there there is a responsibility that I feel like no one even considers when they create a channel. It's not until you get your first like video that pops off beyond the people that you're already connected to that you realize, oh crap, like I'm getting negative comments, I'm getting questions, I'm getting like these are these people that I don't know. Now I'm monetized, like but but so what, right? Like what what's the bigger picture and like what's the it kind of reminds me of like little um like I don't know, maybe you would know what they're called, like little podcast hubs, like podcast networks where like you know we've got shows about true crime and news and commentary and whatever. It's all different kinds of podcasts, but there's a set of standards that they all kind of like.

SPEAKER_00

It's like an NPR show, sure. Like NPR has a lot of different shows. Is no criminals, not NPR. Um, but NPR has a lot of different shows. There they are, there is kind of a similar, you know, there's a similar tone and things that runs through them, but they're very, very different, and you just kind of know that no matter what one you're listening to, it's going to kind of like be of a certain standard, and it doesn't really matter what it's about just because it's part of this thing, it's going to have certain qualities.

SPEAKER_03

Right. So it's like I I'm not saying that we're all gonna be like kumbaya channels or anything like that, but I do feel like you know, if you're ever gonna if there is ever a an opportunity to cite your sources, you should cite your sources. Like I would I cite my sources. It's like I always cite my sources, creator creed, but yeah, level two. And and I would I I would love to be a part of a some kind of group where everyone there, I don't have to check if you are, I just know you are. Like you, you're you're doing that, you know?

SPEAKER_00

It's um I I don't know the logistics behind it, but I like the idea. I also like it because it would feel like it legitimizes being a creator more.

SPEAKER_03

Because it's not about, oh, I'm verified, it's not about I have 10,000 subscribers. It's like, no, dude, you can do this on day one.

SPEAKER_00

But it's also it's not just you can do it, you know, because it wouldn't I would love it if there was a genuine training component towards it and like an evaluation or review component where it's like, no, you have to actually earn it, and not everyone who not everyone who goes for it gets it because you actually have to do something. And that means there can be the recreational people who have no interest or need for that, and they don't need they can grow to 10 million strong or whatever without it. But it does mean that for that there is this thing that exists to add a certain amount of credibility.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know Credibility, I like that word, credibility and um legitimacy and like that's the conference I would want to go to because it's like let's talk about it's when you when you're not trying to when your certification is not about how do we get the most clicks, it has to go to how do we make something that only we can, you know, like it it goes it has to go to the creativity because otherwise what is it? You know, like it it has to go to the creator and why we're even doing this in the first place. That's what I'm more interested in. That's I'm more inter I would not know that thing about aviation if you had not sat here and told me about it. Like I would want to go to that. I don't want to know like how much someone is spending on their thumbnails to get created. Like, who cares?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I can't do anything about that. Yeah, it's I don't know. I think that's a I think it's an interesting I mean there's no solution, so like it can start and you know, very aware of the many potential ways that something like that could be done poorly, but just the idea of that, I think. Like honestly, just the idea putting that idea out there is probably a good thing to think of, like, yeah. Okay, if this did exist, would I be operating in a way that I would get the seal? Um it's probably cool if you're somebody who cares about that.

SPEAKER_03

I love this idea.

SPEAKER_00

There you go.

SPEAKER_03

I wish I could do it.

SPEAKER_00

Dug the little nugget out of there. It does it also you mentioned aviation, like going back to that because that's what is on my mind so much lately. Uh there's a very common phrase I've learned about when it comes to the the laws and the rules, and it's that um all of the rules are written in blood. Which sounds very gory, but that's because every rule's there because they learned it the hard way. Literally because someone died uh or got really badly injured or something for it. And the thing that has shocked me about aviation is how much it does lean towards, or at least general aviation, leans towards personal freedom, and like you you have to get your certificate, your training, you have to know all this stuff. And once you do that, you're the person in charge, which means you're fully responsible, but it means like, yeah, you're the one in charge. Like, you know, um, if you're in a giant, super busy airspace and air traffic control like clears you through it, yes, they should be monitoring, but they have to monitor all this other stuff that's happening. So it's up to you to monitor. If something happens, it's your fault that it didn't. And the the thing that's interesting, the thing I was telling you was that that has been the case. You know, this thing started out, there's no rules, regulations, bad things happen, and out of necessity, rules and regulations get added. Uh in the modern world, because there are so many people putting things on social media, it's the first time that this discussion's really popped up of almost like preventative rules, like rules not written in blood, because somebody could do something like this, or this could lead to something over here, like the guy who intentionally crashed his plane earlier this year to make a viral video.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

He did lose his license, but you know, now I was like, is this a thing we have to think of people doing? Uh so I think the the reason that that that this reminded me of that is there's the wild west of the internet, there was a wild west of aviation. You know, if you want to just like toot around on a little like personal paramotor thing or whatever in like the countryside somewhere, there's very little that you need to be able to do that. If you want to be a commercial 747 pilot, there's a heck of a lot more you need to be able to do that. And all of that exists for specific reasons, and this is almost the same where it's like there's just Wild West. If you just want to go put stuff out there and have fun with it, that's that's a thousand percent legitimate. If you want to sort of I don't know if you if you just want to take it to a certain level or uh demonstrate a certain level of that credibility and that legitimacy, then and responsibility. And response like it's I guess that's what it is. It would be a regulation that comes from learning about the impact of these things and then needing and then being willing to accept the responsibility that comes with it. Understanding that when you say something, um it has an impact.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, and being aware of that and and caring about that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Doesn't mean you can solve it or prevent everything, but just the awareness, I guess. Right. The awareness of the impact of everything, regardless of all, you know, one view is one impact. So like Right.

SPEAKER_03

And of course, like the you know, I'm not saying that we don't want to do well. It's like of course we all want to grow, but the idea is like

SPEAKER_00

Well at what cost?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, I I just feel like, isn't it weird how we're just all running on the internet unchecked? You know, like I I'm not, again, I'm not trying to say like limiting free speech.

SPEAKER_00

I love the Wild West part of the internet, but I think that I just I think that there's room for both.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like there should be some kind of orientation for you to start creating on the internet, let alone being on the internet.

SPEAKER_00

Well, so that's instead of being eight instead of waiting until you're 18 to go on the internet, like I don't know, getting a license or like getting a permit to go online or something when you're 13, I don't know, whatever it is, like how do you explain to somebody that what they're seeing may not be real, you know?

SPEAKER_03

And like, why would you even make something that isn't real, knowing that people are going to think it is?

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And and that's the thing that I'm talking about, is that like you you have that responsibility. And it like I would hope that people are just aware of that. And if you if you know that this is so obviously gonna be a prank and you're gonna make make it very clear because it's for entertainment purposes purposes or whatever, cool. But like it's different when you are, you know, you know, like all those horror stories of where I'm gonna make my son cry on camera, right? Like it it's that. Like, I don't want to be in the same boat as you, dude. Like I'm not cool with that. I don't there's that the integrity is not there, bro.

SPEAKER_00

The integrity bro boat.

SPEAKER_03

Anyway, I don't know if this is where we thought we were gonna end up. I had no expectations, so that meant I I totally I I if if I can clone ourselves, I would totally have us work on this new thing, this uh seal.

SPEAKER_00

It would be a great thing to put up the share spark seal. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how that would come to be, but I think an idea, just the idea of that, I think is important. It doesn't even have to necessarily exist, but the idea of the hypothetical. If this were a thing, I'm somebody who would care about that. If this were a thing, am I operating in a way that would be in line with that? I think that's important.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

At least for now, because nothing exists.

SPEAKER_03

Well, Tom.

SPEAKER_00

Is it time to clear the table? I think it is. All right.

SPEAKER_03

Well, if you're watching this or listening, let us know what you thought of this new format. It's so weird. And what did you think of the this? Like just not live, just pre-recorded, we're just talking to each other.

SPEAKER_00

It's not better or worse, it's just different. Yeah. What took me longer than I wanted to was to ease into the conversation and not the host. Because I can't I can't get apart away from like feeling like hosting a thing and a stream, which is fine because you're doing that, you should be kind of hosting a thing, but when that that's not there, and it's just I was talking, like I would rather have a conversation because that's where the interesting stuff is going to come from. And I it I think it took me a good 15-20 minutes before I feel like I kind of got slipped into that. It's okay. I tried.

SPEAKER_01

I thought you did fine.

SPEAKER_00

Great.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I got the seal.

SPEAKER_01

All right.

SPEAKER_00

Alrighty. Well, I hope you have a safe, happy, healthy, fun. Then we see you next time. And thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_03

Bye. What is our outro song? Oh, let me just play it. Oh, yeah. Wait, couples table. You can hear the mouse click. Okay, here we go.