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The Couple's Table

The State of the Creator Economy According to Us

May 08, 2024 Heather & Tom Season 1 Episode 137
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What does the Creator Economy look like for independent solo creators? 

🟣 CONNECT WITH HEATHER —
My Vlog Channel: http://www.youtube.com/heatherjustcreate
My Tutorial Channel: http://www.youtube.com/heatherramirez
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/heatherjustc...
Website: http://www.heatherjustcreate.com

🟣 CONNECT WITH TOM —
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/tombuck 
Instagram: @sodarntom

Speaker 1:

hello and welcome. You're watching, listening to. This is the couple's table my name is tom. Okay, ready set go I don't remember how I started no, just if you hello I'm, my name is tom and I'm and you're watching the Couples Table.

Speaker 2:

The Couples Table is a live stream podcast here on this channel. Join us for better or worse.

Speaker 1:

For richer or poorer.

Speaker 2:

In sickness and in health.

Speaker 1:

Even if we forget the intro.

Speaker 2:

Or a little bit tired.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, my God, I can't remember. Do I say hello and welcome? I don't know. Hi, my name is Tom and I'm Heather, why are you?

Speaker 2:

Tom woke up early to go ice skating. That's what I think it is.

Speaker 1:

I'm very tired. Yes, For many of the reasons.

Speaker 2:

I'm just tired, because I'm always tired Anyway, so we are early.

Speaker 1:

We're a little early, we're sitting here and there was so much time left, we decided to just push the button and go early.

Speaker 2:

We're not going to jump into our planned agenda until 1 o'clock.

Speaker 1:

Sure.

Speaker 2:

For now, we're just going to. We just, I don't know, we're going to do a little pre-show here.

Speaker 1:

Well, I got I don't know, I got a little bit of show and tell.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, kyle McKenna is here.

Speaker 1:

Hey.

Speaker 2:

First, Pete Breen is also here.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for everything, kyle yeah, we're so.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're gonna hang out for five minutes and then we'll jump into it. Shotgun studio is also here. Hello sweet, so you have some show and tell I do yesterday.

Speaker 1:

Was that yesterday? Yeah, I think it was was it yesterday.

Speaker 1:

Time is hard, it was yesterday I was working on a video and I live streamed it to channel members. It was the first official thing I did using the yolo box ultra, which was ultra fun. Um, I've used yolo boxes before, but I hadn't used this one, which is significantly more powerful and has a lot of, like, different 4k capabilities. Not that I was streaming in 4k, but it worked great. Popping the comments up, it was really nice because I was filming a video and then like checking out people and it was nice to. I don know like my whole streaming setup was just here.

Speaker 2:

Would you ever consider doing a non like a public?

Speaker 1:

Yes, so I'm actually thinking of doing one tomorrow. Oh great, depends on how I feel, though. But yeah, just a YoloBox only stream. I was running the Rodecaster into just the 3.5 millimeter, but I want to figure out the usb version for the roadcaster so I can get that more clear. But it's cool because this one can do up to four cameras, four inputs, four hdmi inputs, which is a lot. I only did two yesterday, but it's I forget how fun and nice it is. So that's a. That was a fun thing that's great.

Speaker 2:

Audio hotline is here. Hey, kyle says happy to be here. Tom, you made an appearance on my wife and i's podcast. I need to send that to you.

Speaker 1:

Yes, 100%, send that for sure.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's great.

Speaker 1:

And, speaking of for sure, I sure have a new microphone. That's not from Shure. I talked about this in my video, but Rode this was the one.

Speaker 2:

This was the one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Rode sent the Interview Pro, which is their new mic. So Rode sent the Interview Pro, which is their new mic. So I've been playing around with it and using it. I want to use it more before making a video about it. I quite like it a lot. I did another like members-only thing about this if people had questions. As of today, I've noticed one or two videos popping out, but a lot of them are. There's not a lot of info like real-world info about the mic yet.

Speaker 1:

So I was wondering if people had any questions about it. It's pretty nifty. Um, it's based. It's a new capsule, they said it's based on the design, though, of some wireless mics. Rode his head out for a while, so it even fits in some existing docks and things. And one thing about it is in here inside the, the windscreen, there's a lot of foam, so I haven't done like a plosive test with it, but it comes with a windscreen, but honestly, there's so much foam in here you shouldn't really need to use it because I think the windscreen also makes it look a little funky.

Speaker 1:

Got built-in recording so it can just be its own recorder, which is pretty cool, like if you don't have anything it can just it sounded like something was singing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what was that? I think it's, think it's the wind, oh, okay. It's so windy here.

Speaker 1:

So, anyway, that was another thing that I'm super excited about is this mic. The only downside which I'm waiting actually sent some questions to Rode to answer is just about the battery, because it has a built-in battery, which is a bummer, because what happens when the battery dies? It should last for a while I would think four to five years, if not more but what happens after that? Um, road has good warranties, but I'm wondering if there's something you can do to like send this in and get the battery replaced, if there's a way to replace it yourself, if there's something like that, so you don't have to just like, well, whole microphones totally going in the trash. Now it's the only downside I have to that so far, which is kind of a big one, but it's the only one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's my show and tell.

Speaker 2:

That's great. I don't have anything to show or tell about right now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Well, and I'm going to. I. My next video that I want to record is a studio tour video.

Speaker 2:

Oh great.

Speaker 1:

Cause I changed everything and now I feel like I'm kind of used to it. But I want to. Um studio tour is usually me like I set the camera, go to different places, talk about it, but I want to use the wireless sm7b and like, and then I want to make a video about making that better yes, if you haven't seen tom's uh newest video, he put together this microphone contraption that he's quite fond of now.

Speaker 1:

I like it a lot. It worked really really well and Audio Hotline is a big part of that video, so go check that out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was fun. It was a fun one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was hard to edit. It's very hard to keep track of that and have it make sense and like it was great. No, I love how it came out, but it was, it was hard Because we also I was filming like two videos, so some of the interviews like okay, I'm going to ask you questions that I'm going to use in this one video.

Speaker 2:

Now questions for a different video. That must have been the first time that you've recorded like multiple videos at the same time.

Speaker 1:

That much, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

And then Because I could tell I could see you like. Okay, this is going to be for another video.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Well, you're like oh, you don't need to tell him I was like, no, but I need that on camera for me.

Speaker 1:

I need to tell myself when I'm watching it back, like what this is for, yeah, but yeah. And then we were, you know, for the mic tests, because it's one thing to say like here's a microphone, try it out, but you kind of to talk about rather than just like abc. So that's why we're doing like questions and you know, like what's the first album you bought or what you know, what's the most famous movie quote of all time and the way that those played out.

Speaker 1:

They do kind of go in order like you know like we start out asking one type of question, then go to another one and then at a certain point we give away the answer. So the the sections have to go in order. But there is also an order which I didn't think about, that the microphones make more sense to go in and it didn't always match up. So, like trying to keep track of the order of the mics and the order of, like, what's happening in the questions they're not jumping around and everything makes sense yeah, it was really hard.

Speaker 2:

I think what you did very well and clearly people agreed with me in the comments is that I think you really kind of brought the experience that we had, Like you were able to share that through your videos, which is like super cool. I think that's like rare, because, I mean, even you said what it ends up being is just like creators just being in other creators streams or uh videos, which is you know, we did that too, but I don't know. You managed to somehow capture the the fun of it all yeah it's.

Speaker 1:

It's hard because I've seen stuff from past nabs where that is sort of what it is. It's like look, I'm here with heather. It's like okay and heather's here with tom, yeah, and it's like that's neat, but unless you're like really into both of those people or you were at that event, there's not a lot of relevance, and so trying to have sort of a purpose.

Speaker 1:

You know like yeah, which that for that video. Like, literally, my initial idea before I went to NAB was that I would just be walking around different microphones and you might film me. And then it was like, oh, obviously we should be in it together and we're hanging out with bronson so much from audio hotline that like, oh, someone could film it. Oh, but why? Then we can switch out the three of us. And then we met more people. It's like it makes more sense to have more voices on the mics, to use them in different ways.

Speaker 1:

And then I thought of the video that you helped me with last summer where I was, we did the 25 mic tests and you were the the one who I was going to have. You just read like a goofy script. But you were the one who was like, oh, we should do like 90s trivia, which made the video. Even if you don't care about microphones, it made the video fun because it's just like an engaging topic. So I was like, oh, we should be talking about. We should use these to talk about other things, because that's what you do with them in real life exactly yeah, because peter piper pitched.

Speaker 1:

A podcast is like it only gets you so far, yeah all right, studio tour.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'll send it to you via instagram.

Speaker 1:

Let's just put away um ig works yeah, we can email it if you want, tom and hi, my name is tomcom I figured that would be a tough video to put together, but it turned out great, it's a bit of a beast.

Speaker 2:

And Gil is here, hello.

Speaker 1:

You know something, hey, gil. You know something that has been helpful, though, in both of those NAB videos, yeah, so in this one, this is just sort of like maybe this would help you make videos.

Speaker 1:

In this one, I cut all the interviews down and put them there, and then I sort of put blank video in between them where I needed to record something and then all I did was when I was recording, I just had my laptop over here and I was scrolling through Final Cut, being like, oh yeah, okay, I need something between this clip, this clip yeah, talk about it. And when I did the other NAB video, the recap video, I literally just had the raw footage and I was just going down, like before I got to the end of the video. But when I was just going down to what happened, I was like, oh yeah, the Black Magic booth, I should talk about that. Oh yeah, we saw this thing at this booth, I should talk about that. And I was like just going through my footage in real time and talking about it.

Speaker 2:

And it really helped. Yeah, it's funny because you're just like describing a vlog.

Speaker 1:

Am.

Speaker 2:

I yeah, because you go through it chronologically and then it like helps you remember.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I mean like having it, not having notes, not having a script, but literally just going through the timeline.

Speaker 2:

That's how I edit my vlogs, yeah.

Speaker 1:

But I mean, I was filming at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I think we are not on the same page. I think we are Okay.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I thought we were, um, I mean, you added context. Yeah, as you're editing, yeah, that's different, but you know it's like. I like I'll remember you know, um, I don't know, social media, marketing, world. I dump all my footage and then I just go through each and kind of like, can you know, remember what I did? And I need to talk about that, and this happened and so while you're filming, you're talking head part of it yeah, you find it in the edit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah oh, that's what I do. I don't know if that's what you're talking about I just hadn't done it that way before yeah, no, that's why it's interesting yeah, it made it a lot easier too it's like that's how I do it, but it's interesting seeing you try a different I didn't know how else to even make it manageable, so it was hard but it was so fun. Both of them were great thanks that is all of them.

Speaker 1:

So there's no more, amy michael is here, hello, all right.

Speaker 2:

So, uh, it's officially 105, so now we can kick off what we were going to talk about, um, which is what we titled this video the state of the creator economy dot, dot dot dot, dot, dot. Uh, how do we want to get into this?

Speaker 1:

well, we talked last week right about the, the talk we went to at nab, the state of the creator.

Speaker 2:

So I think, like, um, I put out a video this week which, uh, I got a lot of feedback on, which is great it's been. It's just been really interesting hearing people's reactions to what I had to say, and it was inspired by a talk that we went to at NAB called the state of the creator economy, and you know it's you know, it's like the state of the union, the state of the city, the state of the whatever.

Speaker 2:

Let's just talking about the current landscape of you know whatever thing. So my expectation for that talk was going to be like you know, we are content creators, tell me about the space that we work in.

Speaker 1:

And it was an interesting talk, should have been called the state of confusion it was.

Speaker 2:

It was just a different talk ever look. So since I put that video out, I've done a lot of research, watched a lot of videos, talked to a lot of people and, um, I think that that talk should have just had a little dash next to it that said, like you're, you're talking about this part of the creator economy, and then we wouldn't have gone, and then it wouldn't have been irrelevant, because it was obviously relevant to some people, right? So what I wanted to do here for the couples table is kind of kick off what we think, from our perspective, is the state of the economy or the creator economy in 2024. I have a bunch of like what I think is is relevant.

Speaker 1:

I'm very curious what you think, though as it pertains to certain types of creators or, in general, both okay yeah, so this was the number one like, even more so than the creator economy at nab was ai.

Speaker 2:

We've talked about ai a couple times right um what's your take? This is definitely like disruption status. Yes for the creator economy right the the.

Speaker 1:

This was like one of the points that I actually liked at the talk was one of the speakers said that obviously there's nothing you can do about it.

Speaker 1:

It's going to to be a big part of it. It can be a tool, it can also be a thing that you compete with, but at the end of the day, people want they're just a thing that an AI can't create, that you need to be a person who lived a life to do. And he was saying that like human made will be the same moniker as handmade in terms of quality when you buy. If you go buy a table and it's a handmade table, you almost expect to spend more money for it and that it's gonna be of a higher quality than the like just made in a factory by the bajillions, even though there's really nothing wrong with like. I think that the desk we're sitting at they may have multiple made in a factory and it's fine, but handmade sort of denotes something a little more special. Even though it's not, even though there's other options now, it's sort of similar and I I thought that was interesting and I like that and I agreed with that yeah, uh, let's see.

Speaker 2:

I'm just checking in with the comments. Michael says Patreon stream and this gives great insight to both of your processes. Privy Mai is here. Hey, andre's here. Hey, everyone Head down in editing Just noticed it was 2206, so, swoosh, mike is here, hello, watching as I patch my tire from a nail, don't want to miss out on a proper Friday at the couple's table.

Speaker 1:

Hope you get your tire taken care of. It's so frustrating.

Speaker 2:

Michael says Heather's economy video was informative. Saw part of the talk you highlighted. It was bad.

Speaker 1:

Oh wait, were we in the same talk together? Oh seriously.

Speaker 2:

Also. Oh my God, I would love to know what you thought.

Speaker 1:

That's such a bummer. If we were literally standing there at the same time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I wish we had, like, bumped into each other. All right, call Me. Cubby is here and Rio Pel Room is here. Okay, so, continuing off the AI, I have two points, and obviously those of you in the chat want to join in feel free to contribute to the discussion. That is the state of the creator economy For AI, though I do think it's going to help creators make content more efficiently, right, like we're already seeing that you use it, I use it.

Speaker 2:

I think a lot of people I would say most creators use some kind of AI tool, even though they might not realize it. Right Like you might not realize that removing the background on a photo is AI, because it's not, you know, make this into a YouTube script, into chat, gpt, that is like. Everyone knows that that's AI. So I think workflows are going to workflows are going to level up. The thing that I'm a little bit worried about is that I think, because it's going to be easier and more like, creating causes would be more efficient. I feel like it's it is going to kind of saturate everything with a lot more content, because right now it's already loud, so I feel like it's going to get louder you got recommended a video yesterday.

Speaker 1:

Remember the one you showed me. Heather got a video that had 10 views in two days from a really small channel.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I did a screenshot, oh yeah you did, so it's.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was like an AI thumbnail, ai profile picture. The video itself had to be AI generated or created, and it was, and no one was watching it. But it was kind of like is this, this is a channel that can dump out multiple videos a day, like totally automated, or at least like generate video files that then some person can just randomly upload, and it's like it's a lot yeah, so uh, I'm not gonna show the photo.

Speaker 2:

I I trashed it oh the uh.

Speaker 1:

And the title was very strange too. I remember it's like keyword stuffed, because the the thumbnail says grow viewers on youtube and it has a very strange photo of like people at a festival.

Speaker 2:

But like it's that ai thing where when, when you look at it a little closer, it doesn't make sense, like where arms are coming from and things yeah, well, so it's a long title, but part of it says secrets to skyrocket your youtube subscribers, and there's 10 views on it from two days ago, so it's like, well, you obviously haven't skyrocketed your own channel.

Speaker 1:

But it's also like I mean. The thumbnail says grow viewers on YouTube. The title is grow subscribers on YouTube Secrets to skyrocket your YouTube subscribers Like that's keyword stuffing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

A title which I don't know if a person did that or if an AI just did that.

Speaker 2:

I didn't want to click on the channel because then I don't want to. I don't want to have it like get more of those in my feed, but I like I so on youtube right now you can check the box that says that my content has not been altered by ai. Like at all. There's no generative ai. There's no. You know there's there's no ai as part of the content. Right, that's what the box says um, it's, it's.

Speaker 1:

I forget what it is. It's not that you can't use ai in it, because, like, if you use the ai to, like, get rid of your background or something right, that doesn't matter, but it's it's making things look, not how they actually occurred.

Speaker 2:

I am curious if youtube's gonna do anything with that, because right now there's only one feed, right, but I don't know. Is there gonna be a separate feed that includes that stuff? I feel like then who the hell would watch that feed, right?

Speaker 1:

if there's like a human feed or an ai yeah yeah, which is why, also, I think people are going to get more adept at using ai to to try and make it seem like they're not using ai, and at a certain point, it's that thing where, like I remember, in high school, there were some kids who would go to such great lengths to cheat on tests and stuff that like it would have been less work to just study and pass the test and I I wonder if it's going to be that thing like your, your AI workflow to create something with AI that looks like it's human made is like so much more work than just making something as a person.

Speaker 1:

But I do think there will be people who can get to a point where they can like literally it's not just like they couldn't have a channel that uploads 10 videos a day. That would be like like a sign that it's ai so that they can generate as much as they want and then have to like parse it out or whatever, and everything is just self-sustaining. I have no idea if those would take off or if they would do well or anything like that michael is saying that he went to the other.

Speaker 2:

Talk uh about the viral content. This must have been the one that uh cat went to, the one that was the five secrets, uh, with mr beast president. Uh, I think you're talking about the one that was like how to start a youtube channel in 2024 I didn't hear about that one um, which apparently that one was also not good. Uh, andre says artisanal video is going to be a thing of honor.

Speaker 1:

Artisanal video yes.

Speaker 2:

I agree. Tj Ware is here in the house. Good to see you. Andre says AI still can't make people more comfortable in front of a lens or ad personality or all of the other stuff.

Speaker 1:

Right right.

Speaker 2:

Kyle says what if? What I find interesting and intriguing about the videos people create on YouTube is the point of view of the creator Regarding AI? I don't know if it has a point of view of its own.

Speaker 1:

And if it does, I'm not sure how interesting it would be. And that's the thing you see when you see a lot of AI stuff. Is that like it? Even if it's makes sense and contextual, it doesn't have like it doesn't have a point of view, it's just it's so kind of bland a lot of the time.

Speaker 2:

I don't know If we get to the point where it's like WALL-E, it'll get better and better, or like HER, the movie HER. If we get to that point, I feel like that's different than like AI is allowing us to do all this faster.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's like that is like sentience. Like at what point is it a creature? Now, I don't know the answer to that one. Hi, daniel, hey, good to see you, and it's all over the world so that's ai okay, move on to the next thing.

Speaker 2:

Uh, influencer fatigue okay I feel like that's a real issue regarding the creator economy right now. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 2:

absolutely yeah, so the. To me as a content creator, it's frustrating, because I do think that there are. There are different types of creators, but we all use the same word. Uh, and I wouldn't call myself an influencer I think somebody else would because they just it doesn't. An influencer equals creator. I do think that there's a difference, though I'm not really 100 sure what that difference is. Um, but either way, there is this like overall fatigue that I don't even think is really influenced. I think there's a few bad apples that really really ruined it, but also I think that some of the fatigue is just social media fatigue in general, or like content. Yeah, I think it's.

Speaker 1:

I think it's a little of both. There's a channel we both found this past week called creating with kaya yeah k-a-y-a.

Speaker 1:

She's great, just hit 10 000 subscribers, like today, which is awesome, um, and she had a video kind of about this and she I think this applies to any niche, because obviously you kind of know, you know, but she was using the beauty niche as an example, which I know nothing about, but the thing she was talking about seemed to be relevant in the camera photo video niche as well and she's like, okay, like the beauty YouTubers of 2016. They would, you know, if they're talking about makeup. She had a picture of someone putting like swatches over like multiple swatches on their arm, like holding out different light, had a picture of someone putting like swatches over like multiple swatches on their arm, like holding out different light. You know they would go out and buy every kind of this one makeup, see which one worked the best. They would wear everything for 24 hours and do like a 24-hour wear test and everything.

Speaker 1:

And then it sort of shifted to where it became. You know, here I'm telling you about this one thing that I'm being paid, whether or not I'm disclosing it, I'm being paid to talk to you about and I'm just going to tell you how great it is, and that's it. And next week I'm going to tell you about the next thing that I've been told to tell great, and it's that is soulless and fatiguing. Not because it's bad to be sponsored, not because it's bad to share things you're excited about, but because chances are that person wouldn't be talking about that thing on their own.

Speaker 2:

They're talking about the thing, because the company approached them talking about the thing.

Speaker 1:

That's where, that's the difference and you see that you know, like I, I can see in channels I used to watch a lot that I no longer watch a lot and I go look at their videos and I realize I kind of dropped off when every video became a product placement. And it's not even that I don't want to know about a new thing, because if I'm really interested and I want to check it out, but it's when when I get that feeling that the person's not even they definitely wouldn't be making the video if there weren't a paycheck involved yeah, and I don't know, it's not interesting, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like, but it it's. I don't know that's a tough one, I don't know, you know in a way.

Speaker 1:

In a way it kind of goes to to in to the same thing as ai, where I think the antidote to that. So okay, when you do flight training, when you learn to get your drone license or you do pilot training, they talk about these hazardous attitudes like machoism and you know in in vulnerability and all these hazardous attitudes like machoism and you know invulnerability and all these things. There's like a hazardous attitude, and then they have what's called the antidote to that.

Speaker 1:

So, like you know, one of them would be like anti-authoritarian, and the antidote is to remind yourself, like follow the rules, they exist for a reason. All that kind of stuff, like if there's invulnerability, is a hazardous attitude. The antidote is it could happen to me and I, I feel like there's an antidote here, which is the thing to combat influencer fatigue, the thing to combat ai is that buzzword authenticity, yeah, which is which is the genuine thing of like. You know, I, I don't know, like dji last last night, uh released, uh like a battery clip and of course, it's a cool thing. If you have their little wireless mic, you can clip it into this little adapter and then it goes onto your camera's accessory shoe and you don't need a cable to plug into your camera. It's like sony makes mics that you can just attach to their camera and there's no cables involved. The camera powers the mic are you laughing?

Speaker 1:

because everyone made a huge deal about this I wouldn't say everyone, it wasn't their biggest thing, but of course, dji tends to do our time. They usually release stuff at 8 pm, pacific standard time and there's a huge thing of like oh my god, game changer. It's like, bro, it's a. It's a microphone accessory clip. It's cool, like if you use that mic and use a sony camera. It's a microphone accessory clip. It's cool, like if you use that mic and use a Sony camera. It's very helpful and I would probably get one if I had it. But it's like like, come on, it's probably not something that even needs a dedicated video.

Speaker 2:

I have never been sponsored. I've seen you handle sponsors where you put it on your website Like nobody should even contact you If you, if they are going to have any input on your creativity right you don't even allow that to happen right um, and I and that's awesome I don't think anybody, I don't think. I think it's a hard decision to make and I don't blame people, for you know I'm not.

Speaker 1:

I'm not criticizing I'm not.

Speaker 1:

I'm not criticizing that the thing is, when you have a, when it gets to the point where this sort of like boring accessory comes out and it has to be positioned as like this changes everything like literally that that was some of the titles of that. That's very different than somebody going like oh hey, check it out. I got the dj mic too and I found this thing. It's a clip you put on it and then you don't need cables. Totally awesome, that feels genuine and authentic and it feels like you're like. It feels like a friend is recommending something, like when peter and I talk or anyone we talk to at nab, it's constantly oh yeah, look at this try this?

Speaker 2:

yeah, we're doing that all day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're influencing each other in person all the time, but it is, it's a friend telling me why they use something and why they like it and why it's good. And then I go oh my gosh, now I understand how I could use that or why that's not good for me.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And that's the kind, so it's like you can be an influencer, you can talk about products.

Speaker 2:

You can do all those things, but the thing of like you're just watching commercials over, like people are tired. I think the problem really kicked off when influencers started saying yes to things where part of the deal was a script yeah like, if the company is telling you what to say, then it's not. It is your voice, but is it your creativity?

Speaker 1:

yeah, like I um, yeah, I I've. I've done stuff where it's not even sponsored. But a company will send a thing like. Gopro usually sends a camera every year. I don't know why. I'm not like under anything for them. They've been sending cameras for the past few years and they'll usually send like a PDF, like here's all the features and I can always tell when the camera comes out. You can always spot the videos that are just people reading through the pdf and it's like that became the script. I don't know if it's a sponsored thing or if that's just. They're just like oh, here you go, but then you know, but 10 videos are the same thing, right?

Speaker 2:

it happened recently.

Speaker 1:

I think that's part of the problem it is a problem because so recently though I didn't tell you about this, but I talked about it in my most recent podcast episode lewitt came out with a microphone yeah, it's called the ray and it's an xlr microphone but it has these sensors in it that like they're basically proximity sensors. So right now, if I get away from the microphone, my voice changes and the signal gets lower if I get closer, it gets louder yes, this keeps track of you.

Speaker 1:

and then the microphone, um adjusts the gain so that your your level stays the same even as you move around the microphone. When Lewitt explained that when they were reaching out and sending emails and stuff, that's new technology that hasn't been in an XLR mic before and the way they describe it they're like it's not super smart or whatever, but it's like basic autofocus for your voice is how they described it. That is a perfect way of, yeah, explaining this, because it's weird technology I don't understand call it auto focus.

Speaker 1:

So in my video I say it's like rudimentary auto focus. Almost every video that came out at some point, whether it's in the title thumbnail of the video itself says auto focus for your voice. And I know at least for me, lewitt like they don't. They just say don't put the video out before the thing comes out. After that, we don't care if you put a video out. When you put a video out, we don't need to see like they don't care, they want it to be. If you make a video, it's because you choose to, so it's perfect. That's the exact way to run that and I I feel like that's how they approached everybody else, because everybody's videos were different. But everybody said autofocus for your voice and I got worried that it was going to seem like that, when really I think it was just. That was like. That was the. They communicated this new feature the same way to everybody and it made sense.

Speaker 2:

It's the same thing as, like how do I get the blurry background? Yeah you know, like you have you, you have to explain the thing in normal human terms.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, as soon as you get into, and that that is the perfect way to do it, but I was worried that in this case, because people are so averse to they had, there's so much influencer fatigue. There was a situation where it wasn't that they weren't sending out scripts they weren't doing things, but it might look like they were yeah because of this strange situation?

Speaker 2:

I don't know uh, okay, we have a couple of comments on the AI thing. Pravi Mai says I really think AI is great. I have dyslexia but because of AI I can fully focus on being creative and not on spelling or learning how to use Photoshop through booklets or whatever. It opens doors for creatives with a few struggles, but not 100% AI, only max, 60%, max.

Speaker 1:

I mean that's awesome, like we had our first. We started a new hockey team. It's summer season, we had our first game this past week and I put together a little website for the team and stuff. I'd love to have a blog where we talk about stuff. I don't know how to write for sports, I don't know how to summarize things, but there's a website that keeps all the stats of a game and you can literally just paste that into chat and say hey, can you create a blog post that makes this information make sense and it breaks it down and actually gives insight, like it did it in freaking 30 seconds, yeah, and it was amazing, and you can change the tone of it, it's, it's all accurate.

Speaker 1:

Like I don't know how to be a sports writer, I don't want to be a sports writer, and and so then I went in and adjusted it like you know, added some more context and details. But to get something, to get an accurate piece of info in an area that I'm not interested in writing in or capable of writing in out, to the point where, like other people on the team can at least send it to their family, yeah, or it's just a record of what happened, like oh, that's right, that's how that first game was. It was incredibly helpful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, otherwise it would not have gotten done. Yeah, and.

Speaker 1:

I would love to do. Let's sit down and write, you know, do a player interview, write a blog post, whatever. But it's kind of nice after every game, with minimal effort. I can take the raw stats, which don't mean much to a lot of people, and turn it into something that makes sense and then share it real quick yeah it's awesome ernesto is here.

Speaker 2:

Happy friday, andre. What is scary, though, is a website I saw yesterday that summarizes a how-to video into a web page article that can then show up in google search and actually steal views and search hits from a video yeah, I've seen that I've seen that, but that is interesting, like someone takes your video, puts it, embeds it on their website and then seo is the heck out of it.

Speaker 1:

So when people search for a thing, it doesn't go to your youtube channel, it goes to their website this is where it gets sad.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I get sad, but like the thing that I'm always gonna go back to is I, I don't know again. I could just I hear my brother calling me out for my blind optimism again. But like I really do feel, at the end of the day, the thing that the special thing that brings a lot of you here every Friday is that it is me and Tom. It's the personality, it's the person, it's the creator behind the content, like building that bond, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Forgetting the intro that bond yeah, forgetting the intro the bond between the I don't know, I don't even want to say audience, but like the viewer and the creator matters so, yeah, even though these other ones are getting hits, it's like, you know, long term, long term, right, I don't know it could potentially end up being like short form versus long form, where a couple years ago it's like, wow, these short form videos are getting bajillions of views, and now it's. You know, even in the state of the creator economy talk that we saw they were like companies aren't interested in doing anything with like short form stuff or there's nothing to be had. The numbers, the giant numbers, almost don't mean anything yeah, uh, ai is soulless.

Speaker 2:

You can tell when a person made it. Uh, I think that is going to be harder and harder to differentiate, though it's definitely. I mean, it's already gotten so much better in the past year but hopefully angela is here angela to zeno I remember seeing your comment under um my creator. Creator is a Mess video, so welcome. I always say I'm not an influencer, I'm a creator who influences.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, having influences is a cool, powerful responsibility, friends family, like that's a thing.

Speaker 2:

It's just word of mouth. Why wouldn't I tell you about this really cool thing? I found that I think you would find interesting, because I care about you.

Speaker 1:

How many times you talk to your brother and tell him to play a video game or whatever?

Speaker 2:

yeah, or like you, I try that restaurant down the street. You should go check it out. It's awesome, they have happy hour, whatever. You know like we always do that as a base human thing. The problem is when it's not organic, because then it's like well, are you telling me because you, are you telling me because you care, or are you telling me because you got paid Right? Then when the whole internet is like that, then it's like you know, it's hard. I understand why people do it. But yeah, gil says I didn't know when's the last Peter McKinnon video I've seen. I love Peter, but to me his content became soulless Game changer. One video later they don't even use the game changer thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2:

Fellow filmmaker. Hey, thanks for being here. Do y'all think, unscripted, no preview? Sponsored content, like I do, is a workaround.

Speaker 1:

I think that really does help, because then it's playing into the authenticity, because that's what I do, too Wait what?

Speaker 2:

Oh, there's no preview. They don't send a script.

Speaker 1:

The company doesn't get to preview Once in a while. I mean, I don't do one sponsored thing in the past 15 months, but every once in a while I will sometimes send a thing for fact checking If it's like you know, especially if it's something like Well, I think for your niche that's important.

Speaker 1:

It depends on what it is, but even recently. So I did a video, an art list sponsorship recently, which they were the first ones that ever did a sponsor thing, and it's just a 60 second thing in the middle of the video. And you know, they obviously like it was just whatever. Like I decided what to screen record, what to talk about, what, whatever, um, but I sent it to them because I know that, like, their licenses have changed or subscriptions have changed and I wanted to make sure that the stuff I said was accurate. I just wanted to double check, um, and it was, but I sent the video to them ahead of time just for that reason, because I wanted to make sure that I was right, you say everything right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, correctly, correctly yeah, um, just for their part, I didn't. I don't even know if they watched or cared about the rest of the video, but, um, just for that, that chunk right there and they said it was and, and if it wasn't, I wouldn't have changed what I said or my approach, I would just corrected the information yeah, yeah, uh, preview man my says that's why your channel is fun, just like having 100 roadcaster videos, because you tell it from your heart and sometimes you try new things and try combinations yeah, it's a lot of like the what if this, what about this plus this?

Speaker 1:

and, like you know and just this morning I was texting aaron precky about like the best way to connect a roadcaster to a yellow box, because I want to know, and he's like I never used a roadcaster and you use one, maybe you could do this. Okay, I'll try it.

Speaker 2:

Like that's just how it is all the time uh, audio hotline says lewitt told me the title has to either be autofocus for your voice or this changes everything what about autofocus for your voice? Changes everything.

Speaker 1:

And then you're you're shocked in the thumbnail open mouth shocked yeah cgxl media, yo family what's up?

Speaker 2:

uh andre says the people and the presence is important. But if a web page like that steals 20% views from a video, that's going to hit the AdSense income.

Speaker 1:

True.

Speaker 2:

Not that I have to worry about that at the moment, I don't. I mean I think it will. But long term though I this is what I think you, I feel you have more insight to tell me if I'm wrong. Think you, I feel you have more insight to tell me if I'm wrong. If it took 20% income, like a webpage took 20% income from AdSense from a creator's video, I do feel like if the creator keeps doing what the creator is doing, then even though they take that 20% loss on that one video, they make so much more long term just being themselves and creating authentic content. So even though you have these like fringe websites, kind of cashing in on your thing, I think if you just keep doing your thing like it sucks. I don't know how to control art being stolen you know, like that's essentially what it is that's happening everywhere.

Speaker 2:

Um, unfortunately, right now, as far as I know, there's no way to deal with it unless you're massively huge and have the resources to you know, you have a legal team that can do something about it. Uh, but I I do think that, like, I feel like it would be more work to try to get that 20 back than just like keep going. That's what I think. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2:

it does make sense, yeah I think, if you, because that website is not developing a relationship right with their audience. You are, though, right, and as you continue to develop that relationship with a wider audience, you're you will make more ad sense, even though you take that hit with that thing I don't know, Does that make sense, hassan?

Speaker 2:

sorry, heather, for missing so many huddle sessions. We give a release hard. No worries, I know you're on the other side of the universe, so it's okay. Audrey says the problem is when creators just rehash old content, like a five things video or one of the things is music from Artlist and all the other four are just tips pulled out of the book. Yeah, yeah, it's hard. Super Chat, I love you guys. Your videos are helpful.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2:

All right, let's move on to the next topic.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for making topics, by the way.

Speaker 2:

Do you have any topics?

Speaker 1:

No, this is really helpful.

Speaker 2:

Well, let me ask you is there something that sticks out to you as like oh, this is creator.

Speaker 1:

Let's go through yours and we'll see.

Speaker 2:

Well, I wanted to see if you can come up with something that's on the list.

Speaker 1:

I mean my big thing that I've been.

Speaker 2:

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, no my big thing that I've been arguing for.

Speaker 1:

Okay, back when I was teaching I've told you this countless times Back when I was teaching we'd have all these days where it'd be like professional development day. You need to do this and come up with a strategy to solve problems and literally, when it comes to public education, the solution to almost every problem is smaller class sizes. Literally like every problem that, literally like every problem. That's the solution to and I would literally be laughed at and keep in mind when I say smaller class sizes, I'm talking about high school classes with 45 to 50 students in them. How am I supposed to differentiate and like, provide individualized instruction to 50 kids at the same time? Yes, it's no wonder that that students are failing, that behavioral problems are popping up, that you know special needs are going unaddressed. Yeah, but if I had 25 kids, 20 kids in a class, I mean that's really low. 30 kids in a class- yeah, that'd be wishful thinking.

Speaker 2:

You'll take 30.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I mean but even 30, like not that long ago, people would have been like filing complaints with their union about having a class of 30 or more, and it's like, literally, we're at the point where if a class had fewer than 40 in it, the class would be collapsed because it wasn't big enough, and every time I brought that up in anything I'm not even joking, I'd say I would literally be laughed at. It'd be like you need to come up with these strategies to build relationships or whatever smaller class sizes. Haha, no, seriously. Oh, so the answer is what am I going to do on my unpaid off time to continue doing this? It was this thing like. Here's all these problems. Here is the solution. It will never happen.

Speaker 1:

My new version of that as a full-time creator is what would really help and what do creators need, especially creators who don't have these massive teams, especially creators? For example, if you get to the many seven figures thing, if you're a Marques Brownlee or a Mr Beast or anyone in that realm, not only say something happens to your channel. It becomes one of those Bitcoin scam live streams or something. Youtube will fix that, probably before anyone even notices. If that happens to somebody else, you might never ever get it back. It might just be done with your channel.

Speaker 1:

Um, if you or I upload a video and there's a problem with it or something goes wrong and we need to make one change, the only way to change is to totally delete it and re-upload it, which kills all the comments, all of the whatever. If it happened to be an algorithmic sweetheart, it goes away. All those things disappear. If they need to make a change in a video, even if it's for kind of a shady purpose, they can actually just replace their video file. Someone from YouTube will just swap out the file.

Speaker 1:

Video never changes. Url never changes. Comments, ad revenue none of that ever changes and I get it. I get that they are cumulatively bringing in a lot more. But my version of smaller class sizes is what if platforms did almost anything to create at least a modicum of stability? So it doesn't feel like you're building a house on quicksand where I was telling heather this this morning. One of the first things I do when I wake up check the phone, check my youtube channel. I'm not checking analytics, I'm not checking comments, I'm not checking this. I'm checking that the channel is still there and it'd be nice to has it been hacked.

Speaker 1:

It'd be nice to not have to like it's a very real risk yeah, it would be nice if that wasn't so much at the forefront of everything, and I it's the internet, it's youtube.

Speaker 1:

There's a million reasons why I understand smaller channels aren't going to get the same level of treatment and can't you know?

Speaker 1:

There's literally like a human, a staffing issue, where they can't get the same level of treatment as the bigger channels. But something, something and this is what I've been talking about and I feel like this goes into small business, creator and creator economy stuff I think there needs to be. I understand those channels are huge and they're over there, but everything below that, if you have 2 million subscribers, or literally like eight subscribers, you're kind of just thrown in the same tub as far as YouTube is concerned. And those channels have vastly different needs and bring vastly different things to the platform. And I feel like when there's a channel, it's not even so much based on audience size, but a channel that has shown itself to be consistent, sustainable, building an audience, like all of those kinds of things that I would guess youtube as a platform wants a channel to be. If that channel could get something, some level of support, some level of assurance, some level of stability and security to make you feel less crazy for for investing in the platform. That would be a huge win.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Just today, somebody left a comment on a Patreon post and said hey, tom, I noticed you have Patreon and YouTube channel memberships. Which do you prefer? Because I want to make sure I support the one that you prefer. I have both because people like both, but I had to tell them. I was like whatever works for you is easiest If I had to tell you what I prefer. Prefer patreon because, even though youtube channel memberships are infinitely easier to integrate, it's all one basket and I don't trust that basket, so having some of the eggs over here is better overall. It'd be great if that weren't the case. Like what if I could just not do that and focus on you know just YouTube channel memberships and actually take advantage of all those features? When I did my live stream yesterday, can't do a members only live stream because Patreon gets left out, so I do an unlisted live stream and send it to both. It's not a big deal, but like what if? What if I didn't have to do that?

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And there's a million little things like that that happen when you're sort of this size creator. Yeah, I don't know, that was my. I don't know what happened, but I blacked out and said a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 2:

Are you back?

Speaker 2:

I'm back All right, cool, I mean, I, I, I agree. I don't understand how, uh, cause, like you said, it's a staffing issue. There's literally not enough resource to go around. I don't think that's and, at the end of the day, youtube is a business and a business is going to do what's best for itself, right?

Speaker 2:

Part of my whole last video was pitching this idea of the small business creator, but the difference for a small business in person is that a small business is building its business on a street, right, like there is no. The only person you kind of have to check things with is the city, and oftentimes the city is just going to check for, like zoning issues, right, or things like you probably can't build a liquor store right next to an elementary school. Other than that, you could probably make your business be whatever you want and monetize however you want. The city doesn't care, right? Youtube, though, like it's a business with its own goals, and the problem is, like each one of us is so replaceable. Like you said this morning, if you stopped, someone would take your place.

Speaker 1:

well, this is where this is why I think that it is there. There should collectively, not in some way. I would like for this group not to be left out of the conversation, because I'm replaceable, you're replaceable, but all of us are not and that would really hurt the more that if all of those creators leave and all those channels leave, then it really does hurt the business of YouTube and it's in I think it's in their best interest to especially I forget what it was some podcast, some something we're listening to, where it's like because you could potentially have a massive creator who's a singular source of views, income, audience, and if they suddenly decide, you know what it's New Year's, I'm quitting. I income audience, and if they suddenly decide, you know what it's New Year's, I'm quitting, I'm done whatever that one creator like suddenly has a huge hit. It's like if you have a, if you make $5,000 a month on Patreon which, by the way, I absolutely do not, but I know people who do but you have one $5,000 patron.

Speaker 2:

If that would last. It's a high risk situation.

Speaker 1:

Five thousand dollar patron if that would last a high risk situation. If you have five thousand one dollar patrons there's it's so much easier for people to come and go, but collectively if they all left, yeah, you're in a problem and it's like it's sort of that. It's that recognition of you. You might naturally go towards the brightest, biggest, shiniest object, but these other things here are really valuable and strong and something that probably shouldn't be ignored either.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I agree. Yeah, all right, let me go down my list, let me continue, let's see. Oh, so I didn't know how to describe this and I think we talked a little bit about this, but what I think, one of the issues that I feel is relevant to the stage of the creator economy in 2024, is that a lot of the content that we're seeing is super loud, fast, short, super loud, fast, short, insanely overstimulating, and that is what's saturating. Like, if you take all your, okay, I'll speak for myself, right, if you take, if I take the time I spent consuming content I would say most of it, because I actually spent a lot of my time on Instagram is this type of content. It's personally. Personally, it's a lot of like dogs, dogs content like birds and stuff.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's not. I can't stand the quick cuts and the, you know, with the captions on it and because, hey guys, this is the road interview go.

Speaker 1:

It's the only interview like you need. These are the settings for your best. Whatever like that, I'm not hating on it if you do it, awesome.

Speaker 2:

It just gives me a headache, though, like I can't give myself a head it's too much like. It's too much like. I immediately go yeah and I start swiping I gotta go see a dog drinking water out of a bowl and just like calm myself, uh.

Speaker 2:

But um, and the thing is, I do feel like that kind of content is being incentivized right now. Uh, especially like even with shorts, because that type of if you're trying to catch someone's attention in 10 freaking seconds, like it's, it lends itself to be insane, like we were in a doctor's office waiting room a couple hours ago before uh for the stream, and there was a an older woman there who was on her phone with the audio up oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

So neither of us have tiktok she had to be watching I have never downloaded it, so you know, whatever I just haven't, uh, I just didn't want another thing, right? Uh, and her audio was so loud and just hearing her swipe between the things, it was like here's this new skincare product. I really like this. And boom, eminem is doing this thing.

Speaker 1:

Uh, eminem killed tupac or whatever.

Speaker 2:

Yeah what is this woman? Yes, swipe, then it was like news. Swipe Then it was, and I was just like how do you deal with the whiplash of, just like this really important issue that we need to talk about? To like, yes, I also need to like take care of my skin. To like celebrity gossip.

Speaker 1:

To like it's just like I don't know, I don't know, fox used a gangster rap. It was like I don't know. Yeah, I don't know fox used a gangster rap.

Speaker 2:

It was like and then like, when we were oh, this is later, right, or that lady went in, and then, uh, this older gentleman bumped into his friend, uh, actually I think it was the same woman no, it wasn't.

Speaker 1:

Oh was it I think this lady came out she's quite talkative. Um, she came out, there's an older guy there, maybe in like his 70s I would say, and she was gonna leave. And she was like, hey, you're looking great, like you're healing so well, so like he must have done something. And she was like how's marriage treating you?

Speaker 2:

and then he launched this whole matchcom story whichi wanted to hear the rest of like I just I was just looking at tom because I didn't want to make it obvious I was eavesdropping on their conversation, but I was like this is the cutest freaking story. And I told him. I was like you know what I would watch a youtube channel of? Is all this like, how did you, you know, in your 70s you found love on match?

Speaker 1:

it was such a different thing because he was explaining, like you know, being nervous for signing up for match signing up for match how he doesn't like rejection. You get matched with people and humans are inherently like, sensitive to rejection, so he never wanted to say anything to someone unless they already reached out to him, because that at least meant that they had some level of interest. And he found this person. He was scared to talk to her.

Speaker 1:

They went out to coffee for 20 minutes and they started talking for a month Now they're married, but we didn't get to hear the end of the, the end of the story. But like he, was just explaining. He was just telling the story and I would have. I would have just watched him talking head. No b-roll, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Or listen to the podcast or whatever of this talking head, no b-roll, no editing, you know, just like yeah and it just it was just such a nice reminder of.

Speaker 2:

I know we will always like that content. I don't know right, and I want to say that people will always want that human thing, right, but I do feel like all the platforms that we spend our time on are incentivizing the like, the craziness. So I don't know, I don't know what the answer is. I'm just pointing it out as an issue. All right, let's check in with the comments real quick. Tom doesn't have topics. He has topics.

Speaker 1:

Actually, that's what I call selfies, tom picks.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, I missed that one. Sometimes his puns like I don't get it so he has to explain it to me. Yeah, they're so clever.

Speaker 1:

It's not that they're bad.

Speaker 2:

Kathy's here that you don't lose everything. Yes, michael says Patreon, to me, has always felt like it was built for the small-sized creators, so I support creators there. Yeah, uh, ricky robinson says yeah, I understand how you feel about the content being too fast. I feel like if I don't do it, then they will click off my videos because I'm too boring or too low energy, see, and that this is the freaking problem is because now you feel like you have to do it too.

Speaker 1:

of course, yeah, but that's the thing too. As I was telling Heather, there's a couple of people we know who have very large followings, gained primarily through very fast, cutting, short form content, and one of whom, like we'd know, mostly online, not so much in person, but I saw one of the things pop up yesterday, kind of was like curious about it and look at the comments. It you know person with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of followers. The video itself I don't know if it was millions of views, it's like a hundreds of millions of views total on the channel. Like five comments and three of the comments are just like yeah versus you go to your video about the small, small business creator and the state of the creator economy essays yeah, paragraphs from people full-on essays sure it's not as many views and it's not as many whatever, but right, talk about the depth yes, you know, and like I get it.

Speaker 2:

I feel it's hard for me to talk about because I don't want to judge anybody, for, like you know, obviously, if you want the views and you want the, the money that comes with a lot of views I get it right. But, like I, I feel like the thing that I get out of it is what it's being able to have these kinds of conversations, uh, and I feel like these kinds of conversations not that I'm gonna monetize the crap out of you guys, but like I feel like this is the thing that, like, long term, can turn into, uh, a value-driven business. You know, uh it, it can be a business, a successful one, and that's actually why. So, at the end of my second half of my video, I came up with this term, the small business creator, which what I wanted to get into, I don't know for enough time like we're our own bosses.

Speaker 2:

We can is like who or what criteria fits, who we're talking about? Because right now the examples we have are me and tom, but, like, offline we have a whole list, right, and I wanted to share some of that list. But, more importantly, like, what is the criteria?

Speaker 1:

um so it's the idea that somebody, that a youtube creator like you and I, would have more in common with a small business owner yes than a mr beast, even though those larger creators and us we have the same title creator. But there's so little, they're just it goes back to what?

Speaker 2:

honor said about like the artisanal right, like I feel like I put small business as part of the name because I feel like at least here in america, small business owners are valued, it like it. Yes, we all shop in amazon, but I feel like everyone recognizes the value of shopping, local shopping, with the person who you know, who owns the business, right like the, the, the neighborhood haunt that you, you know where you go, get happier every week. Or you know, I was gonna say the bookshop, but they don't exist anymore.

Speaker 1:

But you know, like the hairdresser and the, you know, the chiropractor, the bakery exactly these, uh, handmade, locally made, locally sourced.

Speaker 2:

I feel like everyone recognizes the value of the small business owner, which is why I tacked that on to creator, because I feel like creator gets watered down with influencer and doing it for the views and you know, making content that, like anybody can make, or making content that doesn't take any effort, like low effort content, like that's all happening. But I want to differentiate between the person who is a family owned business like they put their heart, their soul it's the first thing I think about when they wake up, the last thing I think about when they go to bed. Put their heart, their soul, it's the first thing they think about when they wake up, the last thing they think about when they go to bed. Yes, we're one person, but that's that's the amount of effort that we're putting into our, the stuff that we create content about. Right?

Speaker 1:

I forgot why I went into that well, we're just trying to explain what what it meant and and there's also the idea too of like enough is enough in in the good like. There's a very big difference between I don't remember this couple's table or just you and I talking, but you know I've been re-watching bob's burgers, the whole series lately, but there's a big difference between between being bob's burgers and mcdonald's. You could say both are burger restaurants but bob's burgers one location, family run, that's it. Mcdonald's global franchise, you know billions and billions served. It literally says right there on the sign. The way that they approach things, even though on the surface they seem to be the same thing, would be entirely different, and not everyone who's in a bob's burger situation wants to become a mcdonald's, and so much in the current creator economy is geared towards just shoving this one way of being successful, okay, person who might be making ends meet right now.

Speaker 1:

Cool, don't you want to get to Mount?

Speaker 2:

Beast over here, have a studio and have a team.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you need a team, you need a studio, you need a CEO, you need a brand manager, you need this and it's like, if you want those things, there's genuinely nothing wrong with that. But so much of the creator economy material is already focused on that, like there's no, which is weird because a lot of people, by the time, I don't know what insight they're going to get by going to a talk about it, like they're they already know, but so many resources, so much is already geared towards that yeah there there is a lot also geared towards the absolute beginner who wants to dive in, like, create a channel, put themselves out there for the first time, and there's kind of just a wasteland for people in the middle, especially if they don't necessarily aspire to go beyond their one shop, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you actually end up feeling bad about yourself because you feel like you're not ambitious, you're not smart, you're bad at this you're, you're giving up opportunities.

Speaker 2:

Well, after I put that video out, I started to question everything. Which this is just, this is just. I have anxiety, my self-doubt, uh, is real loud. So I, I was gonna do that anyway, but um, but it oftentimes kind of makes me second guess, like are we happy, babe?

Speaker 1:

And I'm like yeah everything's great, are you not?

Speaker 2:

Well, because it's just like are we weird for not wanting the damn team? Like I don't know, and it's not, like I don't want to make it seem like that, it's not, that's the bad way or whatever.

Speaker 1:

like you know it's a different way, and in my mind there's just already so many resources for it yeah, so I think the reason why I even brought all this up is ricky's comment.

Speaker 2:

Uh, I understand how you feel about the content being too fast. I feel that if I don't do it, people will click off because videos are too boring and too low energy, and so it's. I don't know. It's the person who wants to sincerely succeed, but how do you balance between this is what the platforms that we literally create content on are incentivizing, but still be authentic to who? You are Right, and I feel like that. I don't think there's an easy answer for that, especially when the platforms are constantly changing. It's like it's an ongoing thing to deal with, but I do think that there should be a space where we can support each other in trying to deal with this. Okay, moving on the road to health keto done right. I think that many companies are threatened by creators, so the conference coordinator for the mainstream media needs to invalidate us to protect themselves. See, I actually, I actually disagree though many companies.

Speaker 2:

It depends on I I I disagree and I'll tell you why I feel like. This is what I think. Okay, I think companies, I think creators are the best thing to have in companies, in my opinion, because we are, we're doing their marketing, we're doing their advertising for 90% discount, basically, compared to a TV commercial.

Speaker 1:

Hell yeah, milk this I think it depends on the creators and that that I agree, because if you go to any mcdonald's.

Speaker 2:

Literally their, their commercials are just cell phone, like it's just someone in their car propped it up on the steering wheel and is eating chicken mcdougats. You would have had to spend a lot of money to create this very well-produced commercial. Now you're just using user-generated content.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I don't know if it was actually user-generated or if they actually spent the budget to make it look like it was uh, yeah, uh, but I think that, uh, I think that companies are able to get the same amount of exposure for a lot less money. That's what I think.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think for products. We saw that at NAB. Like all the booths there, they want that. But I think the companies upstairs from the show floor, maybe even the platforms, are a little more threatened. Maybe even the platforms are a little more threatened by. I feel like how is it worded here? Invalidate us to protect them. It is a thing of like you should be so lucky to create for us.

Speaker 2:

I don't get that vibe.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I definitely get that vibe If that's the vibe, then freaking A.

Speaker 2:

Let's just go home. What are we even doing then?

Speaker 1:

Well, that's the whole thing of why I want the value of the small business sized creator yeah to be recognized, because that's not what was recognized when we saw the state of the creator economy and it was much people talking about joining sag and having lawyers and listen to CEO Mr Beast.

Speaker 2:

OBS is here, hey y'all. Andre TikTok is like having auto fire on your remote when channel surfing. Yeah, that's it. I've been without internet since Wednesday at 7 30 still alive, do you? Feel like completely zenned out right now, then like just totally just completely stressed. Michael says, my wife has no interest in content creation, but her favorite videos are the ones detailing your journey from first comment to wedding day. Oh my god, that's adorable.

Speaker 2:

Someone left a comment on our proposal video yeah like I think you guys, I think everyone here knows this I proposed to tom, I asked him to marry me through a youtube. Well, I played it to him first and then I put it on it wasn't like what's this ring the bell got this notification yeah, it's not like someone saw it before him, uh.

Speaker 2:

And then at the end of that proposal video, uh, tom proposed to me and recorded it with a drone, and I added that footage at the end of it Because the way that we're getting off topic, but the way that we decided to propose was, I was like I don't want it to just be you, I want to be able to propose too. So let's pick a day that we're going to propose to each other.

Speaker 1:

Because at that point it was like, obviously we're going to get married, like it's not a surprise, and then that way I can also plan something.

Speaker 2:

But the guy can plan.

Speaker 1:

We didn't know what the other planned. Yeah, so there's still the surprise of like you know, she was like I need a couple hours at this time.

Speaker 2:

I need this time okay yeah, anyway, I don't know why I went there. I have because michael's comment about I got it, matt says the advantage of being retired and somewhat financially set. I just do what I want yep, that's all.

Speaker 1:

That's the most powerful position in the world, the best I'm not there, but that would be cool.

Speaker 2:

Preston says do you guys watch luke with the outdoor boy? Outdoors boys.

Speaker 1:

His content has my entire family glued to the tv I haven't, but I kind of want to check it out after that um love the format and the layout of your set.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, prairie. My, I think you should divide viewers into intrinsic and extrinsic YouTube In the world. You also have those two groups.

Speaker 1:

We were using those exact words earlier today. We say that all the time.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I don't know if we'll get to it today. I feel like it's worth the discussion, though, so I feel like we should get to it. Of the criteria that we are trying to describe, I picked small business creator. I don't think it's catching on, so, um, I might change the word, but for now we're going to use that sure someone like tom and I. Okay, uh, I think you should divide, michael. You two are the team and it shows I'm at media company.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, okay, yes, in that case, that makes right, because that was part of our frustration with NAB was we went upstairs and felt very invalidated. Meanwhile, downstairs, there's all these creators who can literally walk over to a company booth, not only have a relationship with the company, but literally see new products that have been developed based on feedback from that person.

Speaker 2:

I talk about Whitlash, exactly based on feedback from that person, like I talk about whiplash exactly.

Speaker 1:

It was like you can go down there, talk to them and feel like you're the most important person in the room. Go upstairs, I feel like you're just garbage yeah, it was so weird.

Speaker 2:

It was so weird. That was what was so confusing, because it was like I went to that talk and they said this. Then I went downstairs and then just I was like I'm looking at the companies, I'm looking at the creators, we're all having a great time and everyone is winning here. This is not what they said and I'm not. It was just weird, it was just a big disconnect there oh, I thought we got disconnected. Uh, each of you are the consultants to the others channel, that's true yes okay, hey, sammy, good to see you.

Speaker 2:

Uh, the other. So I had two other points, but I don't think we're gonna have time to talk about them. The other one was online course subscription fatigue. I feel like that's a huge issue for, uh, the creator economy. Uh, and then, yeah, I wrote how to be real in a world that incentivizes shallow, which we already talked about. Okay, so the small business creator really quick, I know we're at the top of the hour, but do you want to talk about the criteria?

Speaker 2:

yeah, so this is so you're talking about the uh uh, what did you call it? A middle-sized?

Speaker 1:

essentially. I mean, it's not the, it's not someone who's just starting out, which is obviously an important part of everybody's journey, but it's somebody who is a content creator, who essentially runs their channel like a small business, like a mom and pop shop, or maybe it's just a mom or a pop you know like it's a small business, and that is very different than when you look to the very highest end.

Speaker 1:

And it's not to say that those are bad, even if it's not what you know we want or prefer. There's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with crossing through, you know, the small business side of things on your way to that giant place. But there's this middle ground that is just, it's like, completely overlooked. I was going to say I think most people are there, but I don't know if most people are there, but it's a huge chunk. That's very much overlooked. And who are those people? What are some qualities? Because we met a ton of them at NAB and we're trying to figure out like, okay, this is a very broad group of people. What do they have in common? Like regardless of niche, regardless of you know that kind of thing, what are the things that identify them? Right, regardless of niche, regardless of you know?

Speaker 2:

that kind of thing. What are the things that identify them, right? Yep, I wrote a list.

Speaker 1:

I know you did Because you're a list maker.

Speaker 2:

Okay, ready. This is not in order.

Speaker 1:

Okay, just random.

Speaker 2:

I feel like this creator. For them, authenticity, creative expression and individuality is paramount, and it's about connecting with people who get it, versus connecting with the masses. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 1:

I agree. I mean, that's my whole video about finding your context as a human being, Like that's that is. You asked me earlier like why do you, why do you make YouTube videos? And I was like, well, cause, I love making videos and that's why I want to start a channel. And then I was able to contextualize myself as a person, which I did not expect but is definitely, definitely something that became like the reason.

Speaker 2:

The thing that I feel like is tricky with that is that, like it's hard because obviously we want to grow, we celebrate when we hit milestones like 10,000, 50,000, we get a silver play button. How do you find, like, the balance between I'm actually connecting on a deeper level versus I'm doing it for the views or the growth or the subscribers?

Speaker 1:

I mean, I don't know. That's the worst answer you could just tell. You can follow your gut. It's the same thing like I. You know I saw. I told you about the massively viewed thing I saw yesterday that had a couple comments. There's like yeah, keep going versus like let's get into discussions right about the topic. If people aren't like genuinely engaging with what you're making and getting into discussions with it, it might not be hitting the way that you want it to hit.

Speaker 2:

So over the years I have met a ton of creators and I can tell a vibe and again, there's nothing wrong. I feel like I don't want to make anybody feel bad for their goals. So you do, you, but I I can definitely tell when someone it like almost doesn't matter what they're creating content about, as long as they are getting views right, because they want to be a content creator, they want to be an influencer and it doesn't even matter, like what you yeah like if, if this video game is trending, then go play that video game.

Speaker 2:

Or if long you know, I don't know shorts is trending, now I'm gonna make shorts, I'm gonna figure out how to make it work, then that's uh fine. But I do feel like this group of people that we're talking about, like you couldn't make a channel about anything else aside from this, because this is the thing that you can talk about forever and ever.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's been like 34 years. At this point I can't stop and.

Speaker 2:

I feel like when we look at the list of people that we're talking about, that we put together, I feel like it's the same across the board, like there is a passion for the subject matter.

Speaker 1:

There's definitely an intrinsic motivation.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and like whether it's the watercolor artist or someone who's super into audio video or you know a music person. Yeah, exactly, we have the skill set to make a channel about whatever, but we want to make this content about this thing and bring together the people who are also into that thing. Yes, that's the special thing that is different from I want to make a tv show. That's very different.

Speaker 1:

Okay, integrity and ethics you have that.

Speaker 2:

I don't know what to say about this, but I I do feel like um I mean, I feel like a lot of us here.

Speaker 1:

I know you, I and maybe you know, based on on what fellow filmmakers said in the chat and maybe a couple other people, I feel like in this group that we're talking about, money has been left on the table for the sake of your integrity.

Speaker 2:

Yes, there you go. Thank you See. That's why we're doing this. Influencing happens organically. Yes, influencing happens organically.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I mean, that's, that's I I was. I was reading a thread on reddit the other day because I was in the videography subreddit, which I really like, but then there's thread popped up that was like do you actually trust youtube reviewers? And the whole thing was just people crapping all over youtube and it was like the whole thread is just a case study and tell me you've never made anything for youtube without telling me you've never made anything for YouTube without telling me you've never made anything for YouTube. But you think you know exactly how everything works. And so many people there were just like as soon as I see an affiliate link, the person loses all my trust. I'm like all right, buddy. And to be fair to them, there are plenty of people who absolutely abuse that, who will absolutely make something just to throw an affiliate link out there. But what was the? What was the thing there?

Speaker 2:

influencing happens, happens organically yeah, so because I think it goes back to the word of mouth thing, like why am I? Obviously I'm going to tell you about this thing that I feel like. Is that I like, like, why wouldn't I do that?

Speaker 1:

so we we were talking at the very, very beginning that the next video that I want to make is a studio tour video where I just, especially with the new layout I want to make that because my studio, for the first time in many years, has actually changed and I want to share that Now. In doing so, I know that there are going to be certain questions. If I talk about, this is Mike Arm, this is a desk mat, this is whatever. People might see that and go. That would be perfect in my place. Instead of me having to keep an eye on all of those comments and monitor them individually, I can just put a bunch of links in the description that say, hey, here's the stuff, here's most of the stuff you saw in this video. Here you go. That's not why I'm making the video. It could influence people to buy those things, but that's fine.

Speaker 1:

Like there's nothing there that is organic yeah you know how many reporterstorecom windscreens I have helped sell for zero affiliate revenue, because true yeah, but everybody gets directed to reporters dot com, because that's where I get all the windscreens, because I really like colored windscreens and other people do too, it turns out.

Speaker 2:

I mean I'll tell this story all day, but I doc offered to give me a free subscription to Ecamm and I said no, and I pay for it because I, when I made a bunch of ecamm tutorials, I was like it. I feel like they would be more impactful I'm also a paying ecamm, yeah, that you're coming from. Exactly like. We have that in common. I was not. There was no incentive for me to make this video, because I'm paying for it too.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'm also getting paid through affiliate but, like, I'm making these videos anyway, regardless of what happens, whether I make sales or not on affiliate or commission whatever, okay, next point is the right fit matters for whatever is being sold. So I guess my point there was like okay, like, for example, online courses. I think when it comes to a lot of online courses, they use the marketing funnel and they just get freaking a million bodies into the funnel. It does not even matter who the freaking million people are.

Speaker 1:

I have told a lot of people not to buy my courses. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2:

I feel like you know I'm going to use the watercolor artist as an example like, obviously, if you're not into watercolor, don't buy the course, but there's so many like, uh, styles and preferences, and it's like this whatever product that the creator is going to sell, it's coming from experience, right, it's coming from experience of having used that thing. Or even like Peter's battery charger Peter Lindgren developed a battery charger and designed the thing from scratch based on his own experience and pain points that he had to go through. He developed his own solution for his own problem that hey guess what a lot of his audience has the same problem, right, uh? And I feel like that could only happen if you have that organic thing with your audience, versus just shove it doesn't, it doesn't even matter it's the thing of get the emails a solution in search of a problem.

Speaker 1:

Here's the thing now, just how we push people towards the thing versus like right yeah uh, okay.

Speaker 2:

So next point is I do feel, like the creators that I've talked to, that I feel like, fit this bill. Um, making a difference is a priority, or making an impact, or uh, I feel like I get a lot of joy from being able to inspire people and it's every day. I'm like how I cannot believe that this is something I could do, because if I didn't have youtube, I wouldn't be able to have this impact like it would.

Speaker 2:

It would be my dogs, you know. But it's cool that, like, I can help somebody even in a small way because of youtube, like that's a cool thing, and I feel like, uh, you know, obviously on your channel we've seen this. A lot people have been inspired to create, to find their voice, you know, and you were doing that anyway already in your classroom, but it's cool that you can do this worldwide through youtube, right? Um, I also said that this group does not use the word entrepreneur or influencer to describe themselves.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if that's true, I'm guessing yeah, it seems like the people we've talked to who seem to fit the bill, even if that's what they are and that's what they're doing.

Speaker 2:

That's not how they describe themselves, probably because it's not the main priority and the last thing I wrote was the power of one, so it's the one person creator, obviously yeah, it's not the person that has a giant team.

Speaker 1:

Maybe you know, maybe you have another person that you work on with. You know if we had a channel called heather and tom Tom and Heather and Tom both working on the channel Becky and Chris is a good example or even us you know, like, can you watch my video? Can you do this? Can you hold a camera and help film a thing, like we help each other out? But for the most part, your channel is you doing everything. My channel is me doing everything for the most part, and the people we talk to for the most part, they kind of have to handle everything, and that includes a lot of stuff so far beyond just making videos that you might not be prepared for.

Speaker 2:

Did I forget anything, or is there anything on that list that I didn't?

Speaker 1:

Minimum income, minimum revenue, yeah, so another thing is, if we're talking about, we're not, we're not talking about youtube creators, we're talking about, like, small business creators and so the there kind of needs to be a minimum threshold there where it does separate from, like, the person who's starting out sandboxing it, getting going where are you at when an audience is?

Speaker 1:

you've opened your business right, you've got your storefront, your shop is open and now you're maintaining the day-to-day. That's different than sitting around the kitchen table coming up with a business plan. You know all of which are important parts of it, and so the number that we were talking about that you were talking about was $10,000 annually. Revenue. Minimum yeah as a minimum. I mean, it's a life-changing amount of money, right, yeah?

Speaker 2:

um, but it's also, you know, less than a thousand dollars a month.

Speaker 1:

Still, yes, because if it's just a side gig, then yeah yeah that's fine so it doesn't mean that this is their full-time job, but it's generating some kind of revenue, yeah you've been.

Speaker 1:

You've opened your business, you've got some customers, you're generating at least ten thousand dollars a year yeah and at that point the things that you're, the thing, the problems that you have, the things that you're focusing on, the questions are going to be different than the person who might end up being paying ten thousand dollars a year to run their channel. You know, a lot of us start in the negative when we start our channels yes, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2:

So, uh, these are the criteria we came up with. We can do this in another video of who we think fits this bill.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But, um, I want to try to create something that supports these creators.

Speaker 1:

I don't know what it's going to be, but If you have thoughts or ideas you can leave them in the chat or the comments yeah, but that's kind of the um I don't know, it's the basic way to describe something that is still very much like a brainstorm phase yeah, all right, let's check in with the comments.

Speaker 2:

Let's see michael says upstairs at the creator lab was very disheartening so sad to I, don't I? Didn't says upstairs at the creator lab was very disheartening. So sad to I don't. I didn't walk around the creator lab.

Speaker 1:

I did a little jump rope video in front of I mean it was great that it was there and it was great they were trying to do that. It's just. You know, the programming didn't land the way that I'm sure they wanted it to and hope that it would honestly I don't know, because, like see, now I'm second guessing myself because okay no, I know if you're at nab, your traditional media, then yeah, it was great.

Speaker 2:

But I kind of got the impression that why would you have a creator lab if it's not catered towards creators? I don't, I mean that was catered, see, that's the problem, is like right it.

Speaker 1:

That's what I'm saying. It didn't land the way that they wanted it to, but it's also I mean, I can't say this for sure I would genuinely be willing to bet money that the description for the session we saw was written by ai, because I asked ai to write a description for that session and it gave me a very similar one. And then there was another session later that was clearly not written by ai. That was, uh, grammatically weird and wrong, and only one sentence like a human would very clearly a human.

Speaker 1:

Both showed an an amount of sort of carelessness and lack of attention to detail, but at least one was human, one wasn't. But to me that showed like well, that's how much thought this is being given. If you're not even and I don't know, maybe someone just has a writer's voice, that sounds like ai, but to me it sounded like you threw up a bunch of things, threw it into chat, sit up here and talk about mr beast on a microphone for a while. Boom, creators are done. Check that off the box, move on to the next thing. Your desk is piled with the to-do list, and that. That seemed to be the level of like care that was put into the programming, which I don't, which I know from the people we talked to who were pushing for there to even be programming. They did not seem that that's what they wanted. They wanted more. But you know by the time that that passion and intent gets handed off to this person, this person, this person passed off to this person to what actually happens. It just wasn't there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know, it just felt weird it was super weird disheartening is the best way to put it, and you're not the only one who felt that way. That was there audrey said. Having not watched linear tv for almost six to seven years, I could totally see the bigger tv network starting to feel the squeeze. The small business creator is like the freelance designer in the design world. You have small and big design companies and you have the freelancers just the small creator channels running a business freelance creator preston says loved all the content you guys made at nab.

Speaker 2:

I hope bnh sends you back next year, hey bnh please uh, let's see. Matt says I consulted to fox sports, nascar and nfl and still works, but there is no reason for the rest other than they're still going, because network television is kind of uniquely equipped to handle sports. Yes, I trust so few YouTubers Tom Gerald Curtis. There are others, but being somewhat of an expert myself, I know when they're just being sales agents.

Speaker 1:

You can see the matrix.

Speaker 2:

Michael Cunningham. Tom, you should set up a UTM link for the news reporter site to the colored mic cover so you can track how many people actually go to the site for your YouTube.

Speaker 1:

It'd be interesting to know.

Speaker 2:

Andre Rho just launched a phone cage with magnetic mount for phones. My action was why didn't you include a charger in the magnet? So I told them, if they make it, you know where it came from. That would be cool. I mean, they do listen. Uh, blooming creativities here. I love you guys, the motivation, inspiration you give so generously. Thank you, oh, it's very sweet, uh, andre. If you continue talking about the issue like now, I think it's a great start. Dialogue and awareness is the first important step. The rest will come at the right time.

Speaker 1:

That's what I've been saying. I've been saying the same thing. You gotta start the conversation and then you don't know where it goes it's definitely.

Speaker 2:

There's definitely times where I'm like does this matter?

Speaker 1:

that's where the self-doubt I want to overcome. The self-doubt is you just have the conversation and just I'm just like because heather, heather, the practical side of her wants to have an end point. I'm doing it for this reason. Boom to go here, but I that's where I feel like we don't know what that is. So so you have to sort of do this, figure it out Let me put it out there.

Speaker 2:

Let me tell you my biggest issue right now. We have a list of criteria. Okay, that would identify who these creators are that we are talking about, right?

Speaker 1:

Sure.

Speaker 2:

Then what? Right, I don't know that is my issue is like so what If I say there's a hundred people, a thousand people that fit this bill? What do I do? I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Like that's what I feel like help, but I don't know how.

Speaker 2:

You know, I don't, I don't know is it? Is it a freaking discord server? Is it like a survey, like is it a zoom call? I don't know, I really don't know.

Speaker 1:

Um I think it's just starting here and figuring it out.

Speaker 2:

I know, but I don't like. Literally I've already made two videos, follow-up videos to my last video, and I just didn't post them because I got scared.

Speaker 1:

I'm glad you're sharing that, because I'm sure other people can relate and then they don't realize oh, she just got it all figured out. Yeah, no.

Speaker 2:

I. So here's what I know. Right Is that I have, I had an hypothesis and people clearly see it too, so I have the validation that it's. I'm not crazy, it's not just me, right? They see the same gap need. Whatever that I see, and people are identifying with the term. I got it. I feel like I have to change the term. Small business creator isn't going to fly, but whatever this creator, right? So bam, proof that people are seeing the same thing and proof that these type of creators are self-identifying themselves as this type of creator. Now what?

Speaker 1:

I don't know yeah I don't either. That's part of the journey.

Speaker 2:

That's part of the journey matt says I travel so light. Now I have a pocket 3x4 dj wireless mic 2 with a road handle and a small rig cage and a battery brick. That's it let me tell you I mean, I'm sure you saw what tom had in his backpack for nab most people didn't have like eight microphones. It was great I mean, oh yeah, matt was asking like how heavy was that backpack?

Speaker 2:

it actually wasn't bad, but it was um not as lightweight as it could have been well, the thing is, it's like you're standing and walking all day, you sit for 30 minutes to eat lunch and then that's it. So that in itself is tiring, plus you have a backpack.

Speaker 1:

Oh my god, it was a lot I I was proud of myself for being a someone who sits most of the day.

Speaker 2:

I was dead. Uh, let's see. Julie gay heart is here late to the live, but glad I can make it. Fellow filmmaker. It's like you have YouTubers who yell and YouTubers who whisper. One is for attention, the other is to be actually heard and make an impact. I like that. I like that You're on this list, heather, by the way you're on the list. I asked Tom if we can make a video where we show who is on this list, that we're talking about.

Speaker 1:

It's not even that the people have opted in, it's just like thinking of this. These are people I I feel like fit the bill and why?

Speaker 2:

yeah, we're gonna.

Speaker 1:

That's gonna be my next video, because maybe that would give people an idea of like oh I, that was a thing that I because I don't want to be theoretical, I wanted to be like no, these people are all.

Speaker 1:

They're already doing their thing, like yeah, and we just went through basically our subscription feed, so it's just it. You know that it's just our small corner of it. It's not like a comprehensive all of youtube, but even that the list got kind of long where I was like it's a long list to cover yeah, it's a lot of people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, uh, andre says yeah, starting here making videos, get the comments going. Spread them out over time, build momentum, use the comments together until what people think exactly that all andre also said I want to see the list. Now the path ahead will start to form. I I'm sure you'll see it before the next couple stable. We'll definitely do it in the next couple days. This venue is helping. I didn't know why I was feeling down about the trip until I saw heather's video.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh that's a that is see a big insight and I think that was the.

Speaker 2:

The thing was like what I cried. I cried at the airport, mind you, I was tired, so I would have probably cried about a lot of things, but like, I was so like sad about it and it's just, it's nice that I oftentimes like I'm just crazy, right, but it's nice that wasn't just me. I kept saying, tom, did you like you too? Right, because I trust you. My impulse is that I left, I don't leave me. I kept saying, tom, did you like you too? Right, because I trust you and I know my impulse is that I left.

Speaker 1:

I don't leave things. I will sit okay during the pandemic. When we visit heather's family for christmas, her parents like to go to church love to go, so typically very religious typically like.

Speaker 1:

The only time that we kind of end up in church is usually like christmas day, yeah, and surprisingly don't burst into flames as soon as we walk through the door. Um, but during the pandemic, when there's no, no church or it didn't work out, mom and the everybody's eating breakfast, boom, giant tv streaming mass. That has production issues of what seemed to sort of be an SNL sketch at times, and I don't take my eyes off the screen because I'm terrified. I feel like it would be so rude and disrespectful. Despite like it's not my thing, the production quality is insane. Sometimes we watch ones for the wrong year, so it's not the one that the current one and even Heather and her brother was like I'll go eat eggs, have conversation, or whatever, and I'm just like. Sometimes we watch ones for the wrong year, so it's not the one that the current one and even Heather and her brother was like I'll go eat eggs, have conversation or whatever, and I'm just like you have to.

Speaker 2:

You have to be a good boy.

Speaker 1:

But that's not even live Like in a situation where someone is you know, I've been to bad stand up comedy shows, bad music performances, comedy shows, bad music performances. I've sat through countless student film projects that I had to say something positive about, when it was horrible, frame one to frame end. I've done all of that many times and I can do that if I feel like a genuine attempt is being made and the person is putting a part of themselves into the thing and want them to to know that I appreciate that, even if whatever they're making has issues or whatever right. I left in the middle of this because I felt like you don't even not. You like, not only do I not care about what you're talking about, you guys are mostly not even aware that we're here. So like that's the feeling I got.

Speaker 1:

You don't do the thing where you're giving a talk and you're kind of like checking in, connecting with the audience, adapting what you're presenting to better suit your specific audience. It felt like you know, the thing we'd heard from someone else was it felt like watching much people with inside jokes. I was like, cool, I have to go reorganize my camera bag because I actually care about that. Yeah, so that's when heather says was it just me? Was it just me? The fact that and not only did I leave, I'm not bragging about this, but I spent like 10 minutes during the talk, like debating.

Speaker 1:

I was in the middle of a row, so leaving meant I had, to like, stand up with my big bulky camera full of microphones and excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.

Speaker 2:

It's like anxiety. He Excuse me, excuse me, it's like anxiety. He just he doesn't want inconvenience anybody. I really didn't want to do that.

Speaker 1:

I didn't want to be rude, I didn't want inconvenience, but I just my soul. I think I might have died if I stayed, because my my soul would have just exited.

Speaker 2:

Well, the thing that you said, was it made you feel bad about the thing that you do?

Speaker 1:

It made me feel really stupid for doing the thing that I do me feel really stupid for doing the thing that I do. It made me feel bad about my job. It made me feel. It made me feel dumb and stupid and irrelevant and foolish.

Speaker 2:

It's so freaking sad I don't. I don't understand how they managed to do that in 40 minutes and I really wish I tried to find a live stream I tried.

Speaker 2:

I tried to find like a anything, um. So the flip side of this is actually this morning I I don't, I don't even know what I was looking for, but I tried to find. I tried one more time to find a replay Like was this thing recorded somewhere? And, um, I found a video that was a. I guess there was a lot of programming on the buildup to NAB. So before NAB started I don't know, I want to say like a few weeks before, there was already programming online like people were doing like webinars and like like online conferences or whatever. As part of the programming it was called NAB Amplify, I believe. But I did find the state of the creator economy. They did it. I want to say like two weeks before.

Speaker 1:

Was it the same speakers?

Speaker 2:

So Jim was the moderator, same moderator, and the speakers were all different. Tyler Cho was supposed to be there but didn't wasn't able to come, and then the rest of the speakers were different from the ones that were there at the event. But I will say that state of the creator economy I should share. The link actually made sense. First of all because the one that we saw just didn't even make sense. It was hard to follow. It was a lot of like name dropping of things that we're supposed to know but, like you know, if you're not in on the industry talk, then how would you know? But this I could actually follow along and he actually did the same format of the lightning round hot takes at the end and everyone had something to say that made sense. And you know, at that point it's not even that it has to be relevant, because I get that everything isn't going to be relevant to me, like this isn't a talk about me, you, if you're talking about the economy, if you talk about the whole thing, right. So I get that.

Speaker 2:

And just hearing what everyone had to say about the same lightning round hot takes that they talked about at the one in person, I was like why was it so different? I don't, it's the same person with literally the same note cards, but for some reason live was not the same as the webinar version. I don't know, you know, I don't know if he was just like just dead that day or whatever, but I actually felt like an excitement, a care that was missing. That was totally not there in person. So I don't know. So that's just to be fair, because I don't want to paint anybody as, like this villain, right.

Speaker 1:

No, there's no villains, it was just like.

Speaker 2:

I mean at the end of the day, though the one that I did watch this morning still does not talk about us, still does not talk about this group.

Speaker 2:

It's a better talk but it's still for a different group. It's still like, yeah, like there was a, there was a, a panelist who, um, is an, uh, like a management agency for influencers or content creators. And again it's like, oh, you know that content creator has the support where, instead of asking you, how do I handle this sponsorship, you know you have someone who has the background and the experience to like know how to navigate that stuff. So the creator is not thinking about that. The creator is just creating, right, and I think it would be awesome to provide the support to this creator who, it's like, we're asking each other. You're texting like do you hear from this company? Is this what? The same thing that they, you know, offered you, or whatever? That's what I'm trying to create something for. Anyway, the list If you make the video, you totally should get a board and photos and registry you know, useful visuals and all.

Speaker 2:

I was hesitant because you know, know so. For example, heather, you are one of the people on this list, but I didn't want. I don't want people to get the impression that I'm I am taking your name and putting it on this thing I think, I think it's very clear, I'm definitely not doing that this is just what we think from the outside, looking in on other people's channels, people who seem to fit this bill. It's a commentary. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you could even invite people. Like if we're one of these people and you disagree, feel free to make that known.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Making the list into the board that would be amazing. If Heather and Tom just release the list for sure I'd make a video about the board. Have a blessed week and everyone. This podcast has really inspired me to take more risks and letting a little bit more of me be seen in front of the camera.

Speaker 1:

Love your channel. I love your push towards that.

Speaker 2:

Did you watch?

Speaker 1:

any of the NAB live stream.

Speaker 2:

They were so bad they had any. They live streamed the whole time.

Speaker 1:

What? What was streamed?

Speaker 2:

I saw them when we were walking the NAB floor. It was like people going basically like booth to booth. And they were standing in front of it, like today. We're here and blah, blah, blah. Here's the thing I think they have a schedule and stuff. I didn't see that Bad people exist. Huh, it's true. Well, anyway, sadly. Time to go to the table. We went way over. Sorry guys, we didn't go way over.

Speaker 1:

I'm so tired.

Speaker 2:

I know Tom is falling asleep. I can see it His eyes are glazing over.

Speaker 1:

I've had fun. But the body is, the spirit is willing, the body's tired.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, if you want to talk more about this, leave a comment, reach out to me on instagram and stay tuned for the video with the list, the board and the board probably.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if it'll be a board, but that'd be cool though. All right. All right. Uh, I was gonna say I love you. This is where we need an ai to do it. Have a great weekend. This is where we need an AI to do it.

Speaker 2:

Have a great weekend. Yeah, is this what Creator Now tried to accomplish? I don't know what Creator Now is. For creators now. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm going to write this down and see what this is A week Creator Now. All right, let's end the stream.

Speaker 1:

All righty. Thank you guys for watching. Hope you have a safe, happy, healthy, fun rest of your week, great weekend, and we'll see you next time bye, everybody you.

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