Bad YouTube Advice [081]

We have a lot of thoughts about YouTube advice and YouTube coaches. Let's talk about it.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello and welcome. My name is Tom. And I'm Heather. And you're sitting at the Couples Table.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

The Couples Table is a live stream podcast here on this channel. Join us for better or worse.

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For richer or poorer.

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In sickness and in health.

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As long as we both shall vibe out to the sweet music. Wow. It just keeps going. Oh, sorry. Audio mix-up on our end. Great way to start the show. Here's some.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

I had the shrewm open in a in a browser window. My bad.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Here's some bad YouTube advice. Always have your audio going in a separate window while you're streaming. There's some bad advice for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Oh boy.

unknown 0:49

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Anyway, hello everybody.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Hello, everybody. Leo is here checking in early. Call me Cubby, Divergent Design Studios. Good to see all of you. Mr. Camber Junkie, Daniel, Garrett Ford, Hot Tub Lady. What's up? Yo, yo, yo. Jared Spink up in here. Matt from Music City USA. Caleb, hello. Keith, finally made a live session. We are happy to have you here. You're right on time. I need some bad advice for YouTube today. Um, Monica Escobito, so glad to catch you live. Always watch the replays. Uh, let's see, blah blah blah blah. Peter is here.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Leo's here. Aubrey's here. Roger's here.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Aubrey, good to see you. And Samantha just inspire, good to see you. Good to see everybody. Happy Thursday. Happy March.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Just inspire, just create.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

What's going on? How are things in your world, Tom?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

They're good.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Great.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

That's fun times, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Things are great in my world too.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Great.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

I'm like tired today, though, but it's okay. We'll we'll get through. So, what are we talking about today, Tom?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Well, here's what we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I'm nervous.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

It's sort of it's sort of hard.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Hey, look. Kevin! We've been thinking about you. We hope everything is good.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

You're well, and it's very good to see you.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Very happy to see your little profile pic pock pop up there. Um, yeah, today, if you're somebody who's in the YouTube world, you probably look for advice and input, and you can get that from all different sources. And it kind of goes without saying, even though I'm going to say it anyway, that a lot of the advice, like there's so many different ways to approach the YouTube platform that any advice you give might not be relevant, you know, there's no one size fits all, basically. Everybody has different journey, different experience, all that kind of stuff. Um, and there's a whole world of YouTube coaching out there. Obviously, Heather's got, you know, kind of a lot of experience and spent a lot of time in there. But there's some, there's like a trend that has sort of kind of existed within that world that both of us are, we kind of get annoyed by. Um, not just because it like we find it annoying, but because it doesn't seem like it's always as helpful, maybe as it could be, at least that's my point of view. And we kind of talk about it together sometimes. And uh basically it was one of those things where it was like, oh, this is something maybe we should actually talk about. And the bigger thing, like that I'll frame it as is a lot of YouTube coaching and things has to do with sort of like broad general motivation. Like, just get started. The best thing you can do is just make a video, which is 100% true. And sometimes people need that, you need that push. That's what Heather did. I've talked about that a bunch of times. Like somebody telling you, yeah, it's okay to do this, it's a great idea, feels really good. But sometimes when you're like looking for actual guidance and the advice is like, just get started, just keep making videos, just do that, it's like it's actually not helpful. Um what are some like legitimate concrete things that can be done? And that if you start looking for concrete applicable takeaways in the world of YouTube coaching, it can be hard to find them. We'll just go there. We'll just say that.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

So so I think this is m one of those topics that was an idea.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Here's why I thought about it. Uh last year I well, okay. First of all, when I became and declared that I was a YouTube coach, I had not seen that term used anywhere else. Uh and it was a few years ago. I can't I can't remember the exact year, but before I had seen the term like Roberto Blake, um what's his name? Tim Schmoyer, Sean Cannell, like I had seen them use the term YouTube educator, and they refer to their content as YouTube education. I and to me that just didn't sound it just didn't sound right. Um and when I I came up, I'm not saying I'm the first one to do this, maybe someone else did it, but I hadn't seen it, but I was very excited to come up with the term YouTube coach because to me and how I discovered this platform and how it fits into my life and and what I'm trying to achieve, it really is about helping the creator be the best creator that they can be. And in that sense, their tactics and strategy could be completely different from the next person. And that's why I embraced coach because it really is about it really is about so many things motivation, uh, creativity. Yes, there's the the strategies and the tactics that are platform specific, but it a lot of it is just like getting through you, right? Like overcoming that insecurity, finding your voice, getting over the fear of putting yourself out there, all of that.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Well, coaching is like pretty natural to your personality.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Yeah, and and I've always done that. Like I've always been a mentor. Um, like I got paid as a mentor and stuff like that. So, you know, it I I like being a motivator and a cheerleader. Tom has called me a professional butt kicker. Like that's just that that that's just my personal personality.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Uh and I really, I think everyone here knows I really leaned into that, especially last year, because I discovered the whole passion economy, creator economy model. And I was like really leaning into advocating for that, where you know, not only is YouTube fun and I wish everybody could do it, but you can also build a sustainable business and be able to work on your own terms by creating a community and bringing people together that all of you guys have a common and shared interest about, right? And then December, January hits. December and January was like really tough for me for so many reasons. I I stopped everything. No more huddle up, no more from one to one hundred, fired all my clients. Like, I I just I it was really tough for me, and I've I've talked about it a little bit, but I and it was for a lot of reasons, um, you know, physical, emotional, mental. But one of the things that contributed to this was identifying myself as a YouTube coach and like no longer wanting to. And when I when I realized that, I was scared because I was like, crap, what am I gonna do? I have dedicated six years of my life to to being a YouTube coach and helping people figure out their own YouTube journeys, and now I'm just gonna stop. And I was scared. I was like, what am I gonna do next? I never thought I would be over this, and it wasn't like I'm over YouTube, but the thing that really made me not want to claim being a YouTube coach is that I would see other people who do YouTube coaching, and I did not want to be called the same thing that they are, because they're they're doing it in a way that I don't agree with. And as Tom already said, I just want to make this clear, I'm not throwing anybody under the bus. I have respect for for all creators, whether you're a YouTube educator, coach, or whatever, or not. You know, just like I would never leave a negative comment on a video, I would never trash how someone is approaching their thing. Like you do you. Uh, but it it the thing with YouTube is that there is an audience, right? And there is a part of us that has to care if we're building a brand, what other people think and how our message is landing. And I felt like the term YouTube coaching, while I was initially super excited about it, was starting to morph into this thing that I didn't want to be to be like mixed in with. Um, and I think that's what I kind of want to talk about today.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

How's that context? Mr.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Context. I think it's a good context. I remember when you told me this, so you were like, oh, I don't want to do that. My impulse was to say, like, it's a broad term. It's like to me, I was kind of thinking of something like being a painter. Like, you could be painting houses, you could be doing wall murals, you could be doing, you know, fine art, oil, water coat. Like, there's a million different ways to be a painter, and each one is just as like valid as the next, or just different. And a house painter might not be a good, you know, modern art museum, gallery piece painter, but that's not what they're trying to do. And so I I was kind of thinking that with YouTube coaching, where like, oh, you know, like I sort of see like the trends and where things are going, and I don't feel like I fit into that, so I don't know what to do. And I my thought was honestly, that's exactly why you should. If if you want to help people do this, that's why you should call yourself a YouTube coach because you're doing it your way, and and and the fact that you are bringing something different to the table is the value because that's where someone can go to get something that they might not be being served by what else is out there, and then they'll find you, and that will like give them what they need. And obviously, there's not one thing for everybody, so that's why I I thought it was cool to basically almost like provide another option for people out there, right? And I that's what I wanted to you know see you do.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Well, so here's here's like what here's like the first seed of this is YouTube today is not what YouTube in 2016 was.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

And I I really think that I think now we're understanding that, uh, but you know, if you're new to the platform, you have no idea, and you're just gonna watch whatever content, you know. I mean, how how would you know? You don't know what you don't know. But before, you know, six, seven years ago, there was a way to do YouTube, right? Like make SEO content, rank all your stuff, done.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Who cares about black and white, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Who cares about like whether you're passionate about it or like any really anybody can make the content because first of all, it's a lot less content, and second of all, it's like you know, yeah, like there just was a lot less content, and it was, I think, less to do with the individual and more about just the content and and what you have to offer and solving people's problems and stuff like that. Today, you can try that tactic. Um, I just don't think that it's gonna work long term, especially with with what I think is the the common success, you know, um milestones that people want to hit, which is uh, you know, notoriety, building a brand, being able to eventually sell stuff and and make money and and you know, get ad sent and all of that. I I don't think you can take that approach anymore. Um so that's like one big thing that changed. The thing that made me want to talk about this today, and I'm a little nervous because I'm gonna say I'm gonna point someone, I'm gonna point someone out specifically. And Ali Abdal, if you ever watch this, like you're dope. Okay. I'm not, I'm not, I just want to make it clear, like, I'm not dissing. And and I have to acknowledge, like, Ali Abdal, if you guys don't know, what does he call himself? He is a he's the creator of the part-time YouTube Academy, I believe it's called. Part-time YouTuber academy. So he has an online course and community. Um, I think it's like three months or six months, it's a set amount of time that will teach you, you know, how to be a part-time YouTuber, which, you know, it to me is kind of conveying like eventually you're gonna make money with this, or maybe you have a full-time job and you can do YouTube uh on the side. He calls himself a YouTuber, a podcaster. Um, and I would say like he's a YouTube educator, coach, whatever, because he has the academy. Um and he's been like in this role for like I probably discovered him two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Yeah, I mean, not much longer than you, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Um, because his channel kind of blew up. What I know, what I mainly know is that the people who have taken his courses, the people I know who have taken his courses, um have seen like they actually really like it. I know a few who have done like the I think he has a Final Cut Pro course or the part-time YouTube Academy or whatever, and they actually learn stuff that they use to then continue making stuff. So you can't really argue with that. Um the thing the thing that I get frustrated by is the same thing that frustrates me about Mr. Beast, um, which isn't even so much the creator's fault, it's like the position that they're in. Um like yesterday I saw somebody post something. Oh, they posted a clip from a Mr. Beast video, and they were like, uh, this video is only in 1080. Like, why are you all obsessing over 4K? Like, look who's not even caring about 4K, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, if y'all want to future proof your videos, something like that. And I was like, that's like the dumbest argument against 4K I've ever heard. Um, not that you need to be like, if you want to do 1080, fine. The stream is in 1080. It's fine. Um, but doing what like a complete outlier on the platform who none of the rules apply to is doing is not going to guarantee you success. It's like, you know, the people who say, like, oh, Bill Gates or whatever is a college dropout, and it's like, yeah, but he he dropped out of an Ivy League school that he got into and then also had like a million safety nets. So maybe dropping out of your like state university isn't the option because it's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Um, and in this case, the Twitter coaching that I see happening is a lot of like stuff that doesn't seem to take into account the position from which the advice is being given from. And that's that's where I see like the disconnect.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Okay. So I'm gonna show you the tweet that I saw that I was like, Tom, we need to talk about this. Like, we just have to talk about this on the couple table.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Good thing there's nothing else important happening in the world right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

I know. I know there is, but this is the couple table.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

This is where we can escape that.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

So uh I'm gonna share my screen and I'm gonna show you this um tweet. Okay. So this was from February 23rd, and here's the tweet. Four years ago, I started making silly internet videos in my bedroom at uni. Now I've got a team of 20 people, 2.7 million subscribers, and I'm still making silly internet videos. This is my simple framework to growing your YouTube channel thread underneath. Um, I'm just gonna glance over quickly over some of the thread. So the first tip is get going. The biggest resistance to success is just getting started. Um, number two is get good. Your first few videos, um, you got your first few videos down sick. Generally find that the more you do something, the better you get at it. Uh, three, get smart and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh I I understand if you are in his position that this is a great just like motivational, you know, here are the here's what I could quickly tell you today that is like motivating based on my own personal experience.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Um if the option is to like sit here and wish you were making a video versus picking up your camera and making a video, just get going, pick up your camera, make a video.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

There are but there are so many things that uh annoy me about this tweet, just straight up. The first thing is four years ago I started making silly uh internet videos. I'm still making silly internet videos. This to me includes the connotation that because they're silly silly videos, you're not taking it seriously. I've never watched an Ollie Abdal video, so maybe they aren't silly. They're not like but when in the in the context of YouTube, when I think silly YouTube video, I think there's a very specific kind of content that comes to our mind for for people who are regular viewers of YouTube. And to me, it's like very um, it's like it really devalues the content that a newbie might be creating. Where to them, it's not silly internet videos. They've invested in camera gear, they've taken online courses, they've made 50 videos, they're putting their heart and soul into every single one of these videos, and they're nowhere near a team of 22.7 million subscribers, etc., etc. And that's what frustrates me because it's like, okay, yes, this worked for you, but to but to present it as if, like, oh yeah, I just make silly internet videos, YouTube can have this success. I mean, I know that's not what he's saying, but I I know that's not what he's saying because I understand YouTube. But I feel like if you are new to this and you happen to stumble upon this tweet, it just makes it, it really underestimates how hard YouTube is. And it it really makes it come off like, yeah, having a team of 20 is like a cinch.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Um I mean, I I get the the vibe of like I started doing something I loved. Four years later, it's grown, and I'm still doing the thing I loved.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

But the language of it is which is great because that's that's like being able to prove that you could do that. You can have an idea, you can be a college kid and start a YouTube channel, and then that I understand that turns into your career.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

That's that's amazing. That that's actually showing, like, hey, here's a new thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

But showing that it's possible because possibility is the hardest thing. Like, if you don't know something is possible, then how the hell do you know that you can do it? But if you know that someone has done it, it's possible for you because someone has done it, right? You just you just you know have to find your way to do it. So get yeah, like showing that it is possible is great. But I just especially in the context of of coaching, like I would never tell a client, here's what I did. It's just do exactly this. Get going, get good, get smart. That's all.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

It'd be like if you were a basketball coach and you were like, Man, I just I just played with my hoop in the backyard until I could do three-pointers. Like, you can just shoot a three-pointer. And it's like, well, maybe, but also like, how do I actually shoot a three pointer? Like, what? How do I actually do that? Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

I follow um a lot of fitness people on Instagram, and there's one girl named Sohi Fit uh who she's she's a great Instagram account. Also, if you're like new to fitness or trying to be more healthy, she she has a very uh genuine grounded approach to fitness and healthy eating and stuff like that. But she did a post a few days ago that was like, you know, she it was something like I I please don't, if you're a fitness coach, share a post of what you eat in a day followed by your six-pack abs because it it has a connotation of like all you have to do is eat this, and you too will have six-pack abs.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

That is not factoring genetics, lifestyle, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Like, well, it's like do you have a trainer?

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Do you go to the gym? Like, none of that is included. And that's that it's the same thing with this. It's like you, you there, how could you just keep making videos? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Whatever, whatever you did on your first silly video in your dorm is not how you're you made your 200th, 300th silly video is not how you're making this. Like you have now you've navigated an entire world of business and relationships and marketing and skill sets and audience, and like there's a lot that goes into that that we both have seen people who will just keep making videos and gain zero traction over a period of years.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

And I mean, literally, like one like one subscriber over four years, and they're still going.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

And you know, I mean, if you if you just want to do it for the fun of it, that's fine. Great. But I think most people who aren't just using YouTube as their Google storage drive to store and share random video files, but who are actually like if you've gotten to the point where you've made a channel banner, you probably Want some level of growth to what you're making.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Right. You care.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

On some degree. You know, some people might just want, like, I'd love to get a custom URL at 100. Other people are all about like diamond play button. Um, whatever. But you probably want people to watch your stuff, you probably want some sort of growth. You probably do want those things.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

And and this brings me back to the first thing that I was talking about, uh, about how like back in 2016, honestly, back then, I believe you could have done it back then, where you could say, here are the 10 things that you need to do in order to grow a YouTube channel from zero to 100,000 or whatever it is. I think back then you could have honestly done that. And I took Video Ranking Academy in 2016 by Sean Cannell, and so many of the people in my cohort or whatever did grow to 100k and beyond using Sean's tactics because it was very SEO heavy. The algorithm was different, the way that Discovery worked on YouTube was totally different. There wasn't a YouTube partner program.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Like that totally I don't mean that was great. I mean the course and the info was perfect for the time.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Yeah. Today, YouTube today, it's not just YouTube tactics. Like you could be the best YouTube analytics person, marketing person, whatever. But like, what is the message that you're sharing? Yeah. How are you getting people to be enthusiastic about the same thing that you're interested in? Take for example, last I think it was last week, we had my brother on the couples table. My brother went from zero to 50,000 subscribers in a year and a half.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yeah, with 30,000 of those coming in a month.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah, with 30,000 coming in the past month. It's possible that that can happen to anybody. I also know that my brother is wildly talented and has been working at graphic design since you know he could hold a pencil. Uh, he worked for Disney as an imagineer, which is like such a sought-after position for anyone who knows about Disney and wants to work for them. Uh, you know, he he has a whole corporate career experience of marketing and branding that he can play off. But the fact is that he has that experience.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

So if you but also his channel didn't even really start growing until he shifted up his content when he was sharing artwork that this amazing talented person was making, it wasn't really growing that much. It wasn't until he shifted it to be um, I guess you could call it tutorial-based, but till people could come and actually get gain something on their own from watching it, that's when it took off. So even with that skill set, it still didn't kick off right away until he like shifted for the people who were actually watching it.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

And I think the reason why I get annoyed is because it is because at the end of the day, I love YouTube. It's changed my life. And you can call me cheesy or whatever, but I think that anyone who knows our story and has been following me for a while knows like how much I wouldn't none of this, like this whole moment. I'll always go to this. Like this moment would not exist if not for YouTube, and that is like so magical in so many ways. And I I I really do want to encourage people. I believe that every person has a story worth sharing, but I I do also believe that seeing these types of like look how easy it is, is not helpful. Like, I I feel like people as content creators, people think that what we do is just oh, you just use your phone, just post a video. It's so easy. It's not, you know, it's not, and there's uh an incredible amount of effort and study, and you know, we a lot of times we put in the same amount of dedication that people do in professional careers. Like, why wouldn't it be the same? You know, Tom has has worked harder than he did as a you know teacher on his YouTube channel for sure. Like, you know, it it's uh for sure and for road. Wow. Anyway, we should just check in.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Check in on the comments.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the point.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

You derailed, I forgot what I was talking about.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

We were talking about how much effort goes into it and it's a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Chip says, it's so important to do what you want to do and express your POV freely. There's no point in conforming to how others see do things if it doesn't make you happy.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

That goes also to that thing, like speaking of teaching, you know, explain something to a class and you say, hey, if you have a question, raise your hand. Chances are if you have that question, someone else does too. Same thing, like you're doing something from your point of view. Even if it's not something that you see happening a lot right now, there probably is somebody else out there who shares it or is interested in it and can gravitate towards it, towards yours.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Uh let's see. Roxanne, thanks so much for the super chat. Sorry, I'm just seeing. I'm just glad that you took the time to be you again and figure out how you want to spend your energy. Much love to you all. Much love to you, Roxanne. It's good to see you. We've missed you. Thank you. Uh Caleb says being a coach and a motivational speaker are different things. Even do some things true, even though some things intertwine, they both serve different purposes.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

That's true. Like motivation speaker, coach, you definitely have different expectations of those two roles.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Uh hey Rob, good to see you. The convos, what's up, Keith? Melanie's here. What's up? Um, that's why you have the Olympics, it's all about breaking the boundaries. Um, it was if it was only that easy, we would all be doing it.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Um, too many people uh equate posting a silly video as a quick way to get high view numbers.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Well, the thing that that bothers me about that, honestly, is like I get like I just make videos online or whatever, but it's it's also like when it is like, oh, like how's that silly YouTube thing going? And you're like the thing that pays my mortgage, it's good. Like that kind of feeling, it feels weird to me.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

I know, and yeah, I'm not even there's a ton of work that goes into making this content for our channels, and and you can make silly videos, silly's great, yeah. Like you can do that, and doing it just for fun is great too, and you can get paid and be wildly successful and and have a huge team, like many channels do that many. Also a good thing, yeah. Uh but it's like I think it it's just like as a coach, I feel like I I there is a profession that does this where um maybe maybe it's like financial advisors where you have to like take an oath or whatever that says that you you know you you have you have to do what's in the best interest of your clients because you you know so much, like they don't know what they don't know, and and because what you know you have to do what's in their best interest, and that I forgot what the term is, but like financial advisors have to agree to that. Or I think it's certified financial planners in order to have that you know title, you have to agree to that. Um I wish that was something that existed in the in the YouTube coaching world.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

And you know what's up I just had an idea of exactly what this reminds me of is going back to teaching because that was on my mind. Um, I my program that I taught was a four-year career technical education program. So the goal was that over four years you give students like as much real experience in a career field as possible. And obviously, like, you know, a 16-year-old is not gonna be like directing an Oscar-winning movie or anything, probably, but you can familiarize them with equipment, you can familiarize them with like you know, professional skills and all this kind of stuff. Um, and all the stuff that we had was more than enough to do that. Like a student could literally start their own business. I think you only need to be forget what our like city's business license age is. I think it's like 16 or something. So you could literally get a business license from our city, use the equipment that's provided for free from the school, the professional level equipment, and then start making money. And and and I had students that did that. And I would always use that as like the example of uh, you know, we kind of live in an in an area where there's a lot of low-income students, like most of my school was super low income, and that comes with a level of hopelessness of like I've seen my parents and people for me, and friends and family, and I kind of know like what the world has for me. And to go, here's a way that like your creativity and your passion could be a ladder out of that world and into something else that's really great and exciting. Um, and so I I would really kind of push that and motivate that. The flip side to that is like you you can't just want it. And I remember once we had uh we'd always bring in like guest speakers and things. Heather was a guest speaker, her brother Kevin was a guest speaker. Bring in lots of guest speakers, and I remember uh one person was somebody who'd own their own graphic design firm for like 25 years. And he came in and we were, you know, he was working with some kids and was talking, kind of giving a talk, and that topic came up of like, there's so much I could be doing right now, like professionally. And he was very realistic. He was like, There is, but you probably won't, because like the clients I have are not going to go to you. And he was like really direct about that, which is true, like a giant, you know, when he's dealing with a five or six-figure deal for a design project, they're not gonna go to a high school student for that. They're just not. Um but he was like, What you can do now, though, is build a foundation that's gonna get you to that point. And then he went into a whole thing about like, this is why you do portfolios. This is how when you do take on a client project, it's not just some like really lackadaisical thing done through Instagram direct messages. Like you need to have a certain level of professionalism, present yourself in a certain way, have an email address that's your name and not some weird screen name, nickname for middle school, like all that kind of stuff. Um, which, you know, some of the kids were kind of disappointed and hurt by that because they wanted to hear about how they were gonna be super rich and famous for like an artsy career. They didn't want to hear about how they probably weren't unless they were gonna take the time to like do all of this other work. Um, but he was right, like you need to do all those things so that someone actually cares what you can do with your camera or your computer or whatever it might be. And that was sort of the difference is like you can motivate people by saying, Isn't this great? Don't you want that? Yes, absolutely I want that. It's amazing, it's possible. But what are the concrete steps you need to do to get there, or at least for some people to do to get there?

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

And because you were talking about financial planners, as a teacher, obviously that's what you want to do for your students, is you don't want them to graduate from your class. I got an A in your class and I learned nothing. Like you want them to go, wow, like even if they get a C or a B in the class, but they leave and like, I can't believe where I was four years ago, where I am now, and now where I can go because of it. And you they don't know what they don't know, so you have to be the one that's like, I know you don't want to talk about resumes right now, but guess what we're gonna do for two months? Like that kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yeah. And I think the thing that it it boils down for me is that because of how YouTube is in 2022, uh, it it's such a uh like unique journey for every person. Again, back in 2016, sure, here's the boilerplate, here's the template, check the boxes, and you you're honestly probably good to go. I I think back then, yeah, it was about consistency, it was about like a certain image quality. But as soon as you check those boxes and you just follow the template, you're gonna be well, that's like TubeBuddy and VidIQ.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

If you have those applications and you you you follow the checklist they give you, where it's like custom thumbnail, tags on the video, description, share on here, pin a comment, do that. That's the checklist from 2016, 2017.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Yeah. Like um, and I'm again, I'm not saying it's not relevant today, but for today, like YouTube in 2022, there are so many people who start YouTube channels that have that are that are about something that they have dedicated decades of experience into like honing in a skill. For example, Tom uh was in a Discord server with like this chef. Was it he was a professional chef?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Uh no, no, I mean sort of, kind of, but uh, we were in this Discord server like four years ago. Um, it's so funny. Because I'm just remembering, like, we were in this thing. I think my channel, I was coming up sort of on a thousand subscribers, and he was at like 150, 200.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

And I remember subscribers, not thousands.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Yeah, yeah, just 1200.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Like 150 subscribers, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Like the amount of people that could fit in a small hotel room, like meeting room. Um and I remember he was like lamenting, like, I want to do this, but I don't think like I can't even imagine ever getting monetized. I can't do this, can't do whatever. He's basically at a million now, uh, which makes me laugh so much because he'll post any video. I mean, they're all good, they're not like junky videos, but now he's a team. I actually don't know. I because we kind of lost touch. Um, I think it's mostly him. I think he has like a management team for sponsorships and things, but the videos, he has a cooking channel, so like the recipes and all that stuff. I think it's just him. The the quality of the videos actually isn't really that different. If you look at like one from today versus one from four years ago, it's not really like it's not really that different at all. Um, but they're all super consistent and like they're good, and it tells people it's not just like here's how to make a grilled cheese, but it's like I know he has one video that's like uh the grilled cheese I ate almost every day for two years is like a very popular video on his channel. It's how to make this really good grilled cheese sandwich. But if you just write best grilled cheese recipe, that's not that interesting. But like, wait, would someone really eat a grilled cheese every day for two years?

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Like that piques her interest either way.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

And of course, there's there's a thumbnail that's the it's a grilled cheese, but it's like green instead of yellow, and you're like, why is it green? So there's and there's the otherwise there's no clickbait. He teaches you how to make that sandwich and explains why it's so good.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Um Well, my point, my point that I wanted to say was basically like you can't there is no template anymore. Yeah and so much of it is like seeing what you can bring to the table that like you already have within yourself, whether that's your enthusiasm for the thing that you're gonna be talking about, your career skills, your you know, just just your individuality, like that is not gonna be in a freaking like course or it's hard to quantify that.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah, real quick, I did want to point out I saw something very important here in our little comment section. This is the favorites. Oh, okay. Well, this is my favorite right here, is from Kevin, who said, It is hard work. Here's a thought learn how to love working hard.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Learn now to love working hard. Learn now to love working hard.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah, and I think that kind of does butt up against like because 2016 was like, do this, and because you could kind of crank out content in a way, I think that's also tied in very closely to what became like hustle culture and all that, and it's like rise and grind, just whatever. There's a lot of because it literally is like if this is the checklist you need to do to make a successful video, make five a day.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Yeah. Um just keep going, like churn out the content. That worked back then.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

But yeah, but would still and so I think we've seen the backlash against like the world of hustle c hustle culture in the meantime, but the idea of yeah, like working hard, um, caring about what you're doing and putting in the effort, like a lot of people don't want to just like set up a crappy camera angle and make a silly video. They want to make something really good, and they want to know how to make something really good so that other people will care about it so that but there's also people who who don't care about video quality, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

And I think I think at the end of the day, it's like it it's recognizing that YouTube is such a personal journey, and what works for some somebody is not gonna work for another person. So, like, here's a I swear to God, every coach in every field will tell you this consistency, like consistency is a thing. Do you know how many channels that are successful out there that are not consistently uploading a lot, a lot, and there's a lot of people who are, you know, even a million plus that the way that they got there was not by doing every Thursday. Now, Tom does every Thursday, great, that works for him. Maybe that'll work for you, but it's not it's not to say that you know what, if you upload a video every single Thursday for the next three years, you're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

No, like you could do that and and not get there. And and I think managing your expectations will help you be more successful, honestly, because I feel like I feel like if you if someone tells you, like if a successful YouTube person says it's just consistency, upload every week, and you do that and you don't see the the improvement that you were hoping for, what what are you gonna do? You're gonna think it's you. Yeah, you're gonna think that there's something uniquely wrong with you and that you can't do it, you know, you don't know what you're doing wrong, or maybe you're not good enough, and then boom, you quit. You quit. And it's just it makes me so sad because 100% your channel is worth sharing, it's worth building. But if someone were to tell you maybe you're consistent, maybe you're not. It yes, consistently work on yourself as a creator. Right. Do you have to upload every Thursday? No, you don't. In 2016, I guarantee you someone would have said, yes, upload same day every day. Well it mattered, you know, build build build yourself into your viewer schedule, like you're a TV show. Like, I mean, I've got to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Well, also just like it mattered, like you upload a video and then YouTube took into account like was this an active channel or not? Like yeah, is this a video that was uploaded the one in eight years, or is there a bunch more new are there a bunch more new videos that someone can go back to?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Okay, there's so many videos. We should go back to those. So here we go.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Hit the pause button on that.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Caleb, that interview you did on the spot with your brother was so cool, uh, especially seeing how hyped you were wanting and knowing he could succeed on YouTube and potentially all he has to offer.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Yes. Uh let's see. Look how easy it is, isn't helpful, but it gets them views and retweets and clicks and it sounds nice.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yeah, well, it's better to see, like, yeah, this thing you want is super easy versus like this thing you want is super hard. Like, who do you want to listen to, you know?

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Uh with my old channel, I did it to be a hobby and it helped me with troubled times. But with this channel, I agree, Tom. I want growth and I want to take it.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

And there's nothing like admitting that too is really important because I think I think it's sort of this thing, maybe it's the response to the hustle hustle culture. I have a hard time saying that today.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Hustle culture, baby.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

I need to work harder, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:54

You need a hustle with the hustle culture.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Um, but I think it's a response to that is like the idea of of wanting to grow, of wanting those things is bad because it's so tied into like just like hustle and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think it's important. I think it's important to admit that because otherwise it is sort of the thing of like, well, I guess I'll just keep making stuff, and maybe, you know, I maybe if it kicks off, that'd be great. But in your mind, you're like, you're feeling disjointed with what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

And that's yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

And that's frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Uh Michael says, I think that some people are afraid to post videos because they have good things to say, but they feel they rolled a 12 for charisma. Uh I'm semi-retired 62, sold my consulting business to my biggest customer, and now YouTube is my biggest problem. My customers are VIPs who see stuff on YouTube and ask, why aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Why aren't we doing blank what they saw over there?

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Yeah. I mean, that's I was reading an article yesterday. Um, this is a lot of teaching-based stuff, but whatever. It was uh a bunch of schools in like the Midwest of the United States are getting rid of teacher desks and chairs because they don't want teachers sitting at all during time. But also like the desk is where you keep papers and lock up your phone or your key, like personal, you know, no chairs, no whatever. So it's literally like teachers like with a laptop on their arm all day trying to like do stuff. They can't plan lessons sitting down, they can't do anything. It's it's become like this big controversy. But where it all started was some administrator traveled to like a small private school where they had done that because they had a minimalism aesthetic, and it worked for the tiny school, but then of course, this person took it back to their giant public school district and was like, That's what we're doing here because it looked so cool over there, and it's like now everybody's miserable.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Uh, Rob, Caleb, and Divergent Design Studios are reminding me it's the fiduciary responsibility. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

If someone doesn't live up to that, they're a fiduchebag. Sorry. I had to.

unknown 42:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Wow. Wow. You're proud of that one.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

I shouldn't be, but I am. He's so proud of that one.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Do you see this? Also, Kate, yes, Heather's back. Heather's like, Tom's my hubby and my boo. I don't need new friends. I'm gonna speak the truth. This is true. Look, it's boo. Okay, sorry. I hate how some people make it all sound so simple. Make money online, 10k per month with affiliate marketing. Doesn't matter your audience size.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

We we drive by, there's a sign stapled to a telephone poll on the way to our gym, and it literally says, like, uh, I think it's like youth program coaches make $28,000 a month.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Call this number, and I'm like, There ain't no youth program coach in this entire world making $28,000 a month. Get out of town.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Most positions, if not all, that do pay twenty eight thousand dollars a month are not advertising on a phone pole.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah. Like no business is easy. There is no ad water and stir approach that gets you everything you want. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

That's and part of like oh wait, actually, let's continue with that.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

It is really a good idea to replicate someone else's business or model, usually better to gather information and inspiration and then do your own thing with the insight together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Yes, that's that's the best thing. One of the things that frustrated me so much, there was a YouTube channel that I was subscribed to for years. Like since this person was well under a hundred thousand and now they're well over a million. Um, followed every video, all the whole journey from you know, literally filming videos in like their closet in an apartment to full-on office with a team, the whole journey and stuff. Um, and they made a video that was uh this I guess it wasn't that recent, maybe seven or eight months ago. Uh, that was like how to grow to a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube. And I was I was right around the time I think that I was leaving my job, and I was like, you know, I'm gonna check this out. Yeah, this person has a person has a million, and they're just talking about a hundred thousand. So how to get one-tenth of that. They probably have some pretty good insight, they've been doing this for a long time, they're clearly successful at it. We're not, I know I'm not gonna get to a million, but I would like that's a cool goal. What could I check out? So the video is I think 16 minutes long. Um, and the first literally 10 minutes of the video have nothing to do with the topic at all or anything really interesting. It's literally just shaky cam vlog footage until finally, you know, I do the shaky cam vlog footage for 10 minutes though, before you get to a point, and then when you get to the point, fine, I don't care. Show me 10 minutes of shaky cam vlog footage of you making coffee or whatever, and then get to the point of the video where you drop some like serious knowledge that I can apply. But at literally like 10 minutes and 45 seconds, consistency. No, it was here's the one thing you need to do very close to the camera. One thing you need to do to hit 100,000 on YouTube, just create more, make good content. And I I literally was like, unsubscribe, I'm out. Like I had even been on their like channel membership thing and all this stuff. So to go from channel member extreme, like maximum level of fandom to unsubscribed, haven't watched a video since. Because that's like the least helpful advice.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Just make me want to die.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Yeah, like that's not ah, and that's and that's what I get.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

So many things were wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Well, then you get frustrated.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

So then once you are like But it sounds great though, doesn't it? Like make good content.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Yeah, but also then you look and you're like, this video was posted on the 30th of a month, and it has like you know, a one-minute ad read. Oh, this person was on like contract to do a sponsored video, they waited till the end of the month, now they gotta crank out something before the month ends, and this is what they came up with. Oh. And that's like that's very different than that makes me sad. Tell like that give me your experience. I know if you have a million and you're telling how you got to a hundred thousand, it's not going to be copy and paste, like Chip said, but there's probably something really good. Like I did hear somebody said um the things that got you to the things that get you to a hundred thousand aren't the things that got you to ten thousand. Yeah, that's not a clear applicable uh bit of information, but that was a very interesting way to think of stuff. Like, oh, the strategies to grow to this point are different than when you're reaching a broad.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

I mean, I'll tell you right now, the the things that Tom struggles with are completely different than what I struggle with. And it's been very fascinating as a YouTube coach to be able to have this insight as you know, to someone who has close to 100,000 subscribers. It's totally different. It's totally different. And I and I wish, you know, I'll always go back to I think building a YouTube channel is a worthwhile journey. It's the best thing I've ever done. But I also wish that would the people would embrace the journey, you know, like have fun and give yourself credit and understand that it is a journey, right? It it is something where you're gonna have to overcome things that feel really hard and you are going to have to make some tough decisions. And you know, someone could give you advice, someone could give you the complete opposite advice because advice is just based on everyone's own experience. With YouTube today, there is not one thing that works, there just isn't. And anybody who is telling you that there is a fluke.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Yeah. Uh YouTube today sounds like a morning talk show, by the way. But um we should change our name. Hey, welcome to YouTube today, tomorrow. Um we talked about Roberto Blake a minute ago, and he's a YouTube coach. He goes by the title of YouTube coach. And I'll be like, I have a lot of respect for Roberto, but we don't agree with I don't want to say we. I don't agree with everything he says. But here's here's something he does say that I think if we're looking for things beyond motivation and concrete, um, I've heard him say many times to basically not have any expectations until you've made a hundred videos. Yeah. So start your channel, make a hundred videos, and then assess. And I think that's helpful coaching because that's saying, okay, don't have expectations. You didn't make your first video and get a silver play button. Like it's probably not gonna happen. Um, and it's not even gonna happen with five or ten videos. Like stick with this for a while and then assess.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Well, the other thing that you know people underestimate is that I I truly believe that there is a an artistry to being a YouTube creator, and that that is different from like tactics, yeah. Something that anybody can do. Like make good thumbnails. That's something that all of us as YouTube creators should should be constantly working towards. But your individual creative expression and your message and how you know, even though we're talking about the same topic, the delivery, the format, the words you say, you know, all of that is is unique to you. And I I really don't feel like there's enough emphasis into like that part and discovering what that part is. And the best way to chip away at discovering what that is is to just create more.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Nice.com.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Some of the horrible advice I hear is to grind, grind, grind. However, no advice on how to maintain a healthy upload schedule.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Right. And that's why I always harp on my thing of like scheduling videos in advance. Not because it's like, look at me, I came up with a thing, but because I'm I'm telling people this is a really great strategy that is helpful to me now and was really helpful when there was a full-time job, to you do need to set aside time to crank out some extra videos, but then to have three or four videos, you do a weekly schedule, schedule them in advance, and then you if something happens and you can't make a video, you get sick, you need more time to do something, you're not panicking to just push something out by your your pre your like kind of arbitrary upload date. And that like really, I mean, like literally it it helped me from like getting sick from YouTube stress to not getting physically sick from YouTube stress. And it's been very sustainable, especially when I had a full-time job in a YouTube. That's like a real piece of advice. But the number of times I've said that, and literally, I do not mean figuratively, I mean literally had people laugh at me for that is absurd.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Like, okay, who laughs at you?

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Well, I'm not gonna name names. You know? Yes, I should be and a lot of it is because people get excited when they finish a video, they're like, video's done, I want to put it out right now. Like, I'm too excited, I couldn't wait a week or two or whatever. I'm like, I get that. I had that same thing. You will learn patience the more that you do it. You will learn to like and guess what? When you have a video that's done and it sits for a week or two, you kind of ruminate on it a bit, and you might think, you know, that could have a better title, that could have a better thumbnail, maybe you need to revisit the description. Maybe, oh, maybe I should like pin a comment that points to another video. Like, you kind of look at it with Let it air out. Yeah, you get a little distance from it, and then you're sort of able to approach it differently than like literally you're writing the description as the video's uploaded.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Sometimes you need to sleep on it and then you come at it with fresh eyes.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

But that's also what works for me, which is like going back to the world of YouTube coaching, there are people who just that will not work for. And if you're somebody who uploads every day or whatever, like it's that thing of like, I don't know, I kind of think this like if you're someone who's a coach, you should be doing what a good financial planner does, which is looking out for the best interest of your clients and the people who are looking to you. But you also have your specific way of doing things. If you look at coaches, you know, there's all different styles, teachers is all different styles, and this is a way to do things here, and it's going to um these things are gonna help these people who like jive with that. But that's not gonna be everybody, and there's gonna be someone else over here who's doing something different that is not the approach you might take, but that's going to like connect with these people over here, and that's why it's like it's not it's not one or the other. It's like there's just so many, it's not even like a piece of the pie, it's just like there's so many pies.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

You know what I wish?

SPEAKER_00 52:55

What's it?

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Here, I'll tell you what I wish. You ready for this? I wish um, and the reason why it isn't this way is because of so many reasons.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Reason is becoming so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

But I wish that people would own up to the term like I am a YouTuber or I am a YouTube creator from the moment that they decide that they want to grow a YouTube channel. So that could be your first video, or that could be before. Maybe you haven't even uploaded content yet, but you're like, I want to do this. I wish people could just embrace that. Like, you don't have to hit a thousand subscribers, you don't have to hit a hundred subscribers, you don't have to get a silver play button, you don't have to cross some kind of milestone in order to embrace the fact that this is what you're doing, and it's a very exciting thing. You can be a painter and totally suck, whatever. Like it's it's your journey. Who am I to say? I don't know anything. And and like if you were to claim it right at the beginning, right, then then there isn't this feeling of like I need to cross that finish line in order for this to have to have been worth it. Right. Right? Like in order for me to have success. Like, no, just like you're already you're doing it, yo. Like, you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

You're doing it, yo.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

And we should be happy, you should be happy, you should have fun, and I guarantee you your content's probably gonna be better. I like that. I don't know, that maybe that's bad YouTube advice.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

I don't think so because I um just own it, yo. Yeah. So I'm so I'm so sorry that every like example I have is related to teaching, but to this day, you're a teacher, I I get nervous when people people say, like, how long did you teach for? Um, I say 11 years because I taught for 11 academic years, but I was only getting paid for 10 of them. And I always have this crisis because the first year I taught, I was student teaching, which means I was doing all the same stuff. In my case, student teaching is different in lots of places, so it might be different if you know like a student teacher. But in my case, I was doing I was running all the classes, creating all the assignments, assessing all the work, not getting paid for any of that, and then going to my classes to finish my certification at night. So I was losing money because I was paying to go to school. Complete nightmare. Like, and it's not like you did that one day a week, it's full-time the whole time. Um, and you kind of like so you work for free as a teacher for a year, but I'm always hesitant to include that 11th year, that first year, as like a year of teaching experience. Even though I can tell you the following year, when I was a paid teacher, the only thing that changed was like I didn't have to stress out about being broke because I was actually getting a paycheck. The work was the same, like even easier in some ways.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Like, if you if you are not getting paid to do YouTube, right? Like you're not in the YouTube partner program yet, you don't have a YouTube sponsor, does that mean that you do not care about the content that you're creating?

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Well, that was my whole thing was like, just because I didn't get a paycheck from the county, does that mean that like well that's all in your head, yo? Yeah, I I know that's the point. But it's like just because I didn't get a paycheck for this, the experience is not valid. No, of course not. Like, I was those kids' teacher during that time. Like, that's why, like you were teaching. You are um it didn't matter what the bank account said.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Well, that's why it's like you're creating YouTube videos, you are a YouTube creator.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

It like you don't there's no prerequisite, isn't that the beauty of this? Is that anybody can freaking do it, and that's what's really cool because there's all kinds of fun, interesting, valuable, helpful content out there.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

You too can be on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Hard work doesn't have to be a drag like a nine and five either. Hard work can be fun. Yeah, hard work needs to be fun, or you can't sustain it.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Satisfying too, I think, can sometimes take the place of fun.

SPEAKER_02 56:44

Like uh wow, I totally can relate. People still come to me trying to get the template to get a hit record, and yet people have a masterclass on how to allegedly do it.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

Uh Matt Diavella always says you should create meaningful content.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Yeah, and meaningful can be serious, it can be fun, it can be all those things.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Yeah, just because it's silly doesn't mean that it's not meaningful. Um, but but I mean I I think that it all comes down to like what's meaningful to you is not necessarily meaningful to me because it's unique to your to your thing. Uh if you buy Tom's courses every Thursday, you'll be successful.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

I don't want to guarantee anything, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Uh here's the douche thing. We're catching up. Uh let's see.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Red flag. I got a flag on the play for that one. Laugh and cringe in equal measure. That's gonna be my new channel slogan.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Oh yes. There it is. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Um yeah, you're right, Leo.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

You're right, Leo. Oh, that's interesting. I wonder how I felt like you were very broad.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Yeah, but if you if you know, you know. If you know, you know.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

Let's see. Exactly. It's too many people out here giving bad advice. It's not again, like I'm I'm not I I don't know if it's bad. It's just like I don't know if that's helpful. And if it it seems really helpful, right? I mean, if you look at this, there's so many retweets, there's so many likes. Like, obviously, someone sees value in it. I just I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

I like the distinction we talked about between motivational speaker and coach. You go to them for different things. You go to a motivational speaker for motivation to feel like, yeah, I'm gonna go do that thing. And you go to a coach for like, what do I need to do now to get better at what I'm doing?

SPEAKER_02 58:35

Yeah, like okay, I mean, I think everybody knows this. Tom has gas. He really loves like video quality. He loves video quality. I couldn't care less.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

I wanted to like your acquisition syndrome is what we're talking about. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

But like, you know what I really needed most? Like looking back at my six years on YouTube, the thing that would have helped, the thing that helped me the most, the thing that I needed most of the time whenever I would hit a YouTube slump was YouTube motivation. Was motivation as a creator, was motivation as an entrepreneur. Like, I have ADHD, I also have PMDD. Like the the self-doubt is something that I am always going to struggle with for the rest of my life, regardless of what I'm working on. And I acknowledge that now. I did not know that when I first started. And you could have given me the best camera in the world, you I could have collabed with the biggest YouTubers in career. It doesn't matter. What I really needed was someone to help me reframe my mindset and help me get over my own self-doubt so that I'm acknowledging it, but I'm not letting it stop me. For Tom, he didn't need that as much. You know, like I don't know, what would you say was your biggest at the beginning?

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Or what when?

SPEAKER_02 59:48

Like, I don't know, what's something that sticks out that like really helped you or something that you struggle with?

SPEAKER_00 59:54

I'll give two examples, uh, because I'm an overachiever. At the beginning, it was a it was uh it was doubt, it was that kind of thing. So motivation, you know. I was making videos and I was putting them out there, but it wasn't until you showed up and I was feeling like I don't want anyone to know like that I created a YouTube account. And you like the day we met, we're like, you should have a YouTube channel, that's awesome. Like, why aren't you? It's crazy that you wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

And I needed that. You didn't give me other, you know, I asked you other questions about like how, when, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

But I was like, just go.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Yeah, but but just that motivation of like it is absolutely okay to do this thing you're thinking of doing. I needed to hear that, even though there was no clear direction that came with it. Later on, like much more recently, could be something like uh a more concrete thing. So that's motivation, but coaching would be like framing titles and thumbnails. You know, we've talked about this before, but here's the Shore MV7. Uh, you can make a YouTube video that says Shore MV7 review, and people would click on it if they're looking for the Shore MV7.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

Do you know how many people aren't looking for the Shore MV7, but they're looking for a good USB mic?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:03

They don't know it's called the Shore MV7. They're not gonna search for that because they don't know what it's called.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:08

But if you if you made a video that's like, and I know this sounds very simple, but like the best USB mic could buy the perfect USB mic question mark. And yeah, it is kind of clickbaity-y, but that's so much more accessible to people to click on that and kind of listen to that and go, oh, okay. And then they learn, hey, here's a microphone. Maybe that Shore MV7 is the one that would work good for me. That kind of framing is um, like I would say that was coaching advice that was a concrete, applicable thing that actually helped me understand you're dealing in a niche content area, but there is a way to give that a little bit more of a broad appeal so that it's not just people who already know what they're looking for who find it. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

Uh I think maybe it went through this whole process of how you need to be grinding and you're going to go through a sacrifice season. It's not all flowers and rainbows.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

I mean I I think there I have the sacrifice season, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

I think there's Hey Curiosity Network, good to see you. He's on vacation.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Um that's interesting because I remember uh Peter Lindgren, my buddy in Sweden, when he his channel blew up and went from crud, what was it, 5,000 to like 150,000 in a couple months back in 2019. Now he's at 500,000, but the the blow-up was like the huge initial push was over a very short amount of time. And I remember you know, he had been making videos and they were good and they kicked off. And once his channel exploded, he spent the rest of that year just like buried in just doing more because he he knew what he needed to do. He knew like all these people are coming here, they need more of this, and it doesn't exist yet, so I need to make that so that it's there for them. Um, and he talks about as like that was terrible and exhausting, but it had to get done to build the foundation for things to grow on, which is kind of the curse of when you see channels that do blow up really fast, is it's like you gotta show up. Yeah, you're you're building the track as the train is going down it versus slow, moderate growth is like far less exciting, but you can lay down the foundation before you build on it a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

Uh, example a football coach can't coach can't coach the quarterback the exact same way as a running back, although they're on the same team in safe field. Exactly. That is a great analogy. Uh let's see. I think uploading constantly is most important in the beginning when you grow your channel community. When the community is established, you don't need the consistent uploads.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

I I I can agree with that too, because it's also uploading consistently is for you as much as it is for them, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

I love this. James, I'm a YouTuber with 260 subs on one channel and 147 on another. Love both of them, and I own being a creator.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

Yes. Like that's what I needed to hear when I had 260 subscribers.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

I gave a whole I gave a whole talk at a conference, literally when I had 260 subscribers.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

I did not own the I was so embarrassed about my YouTube channel. And I remember when I I specifically went to a business networking event, I had at least 2,000 because I remember I remember seeing the word 2000. It was like 2000, a couple hundred or something like that. And I was like scared to tell people. And thankfully, everyone there was like, dude, if I had 2,000, I'd have it on a shirt. You know, I'd tell everybody I had 2,000, like own your 2000. And it's gonna be different for everybody, so why not just own it when you're going?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Like who cares if you're where you are right now, yes. Yeah, I remember having 26 after 50 videos, and to me that was a big deal because I knew I hadn't told anyone about my channel. Oh, so I knew you were there, but it was you've branched out. So I guess it was me as one of them, you as another one. And then there's 24 other people that that you don't know that I don't know how they found it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:54

And it was like now you're at like how many are you at?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

88 point something. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

Um, let's see. Man, I wish I would have listened to this podcast before. Like, I so I like I said, I bought Video Ranking Academy back in 2016, and Sean Cannell is awesome. Like he's he's great. He he really was he taught me the foundation of what I needed to know to be doing what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Real like applicable takeaways.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

I don't know how much the course has changed like since. Um, but that is a person who has I feel like I can vouch has um put in the work and proven that you know they have been creating content consistently this whole time, has worked with a multitude of all different kinds of channels.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

I feel like they do a pretty good job too of like adapting as the platform changes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Uh one of the channels I run has passed the 10k mark, and I only take two days in the month to create the content and schedule all the videos to grow up and organically it's growing. Love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

That's perfect. That's what you want, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

Yeah, because it's not But it's not because that works for that channel that it's the way to go for others. Yes, exactly. Um, just my thought about creativity. I see perfection as the opposite of creativity. Love the quote, own your flaws.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

A million perfect people, but only one you. Um, I'm personally more hyped on the growth of another channel I have that is under 400 subs.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

Yeah, there's I mean, there's a lot of people. Going back to Peter, his main channel, 500,000, his vlog channel just hit 10,000. And you know which one he's way more psyched for is the 10,000 vlog one because it's like, wow, like that's not people want to just see a new product or a new whatever. That's people who like are on board for like him doing his thing every day.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

Amazingly, you can get confused on Tom's videos. Some are like two to five years old, and you almost cannot tell because of his consistency.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

Oh, I can tell.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Hey Raphael, good to see you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

The mic has good uh noise rejection.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

Heather the hype master. Uh hey, Mihal, good to see you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

Um wait, Leo, are you a are you uh seriously asking a pod mic or MV7? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Oh, are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

If you are, I can answer that question.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

Uh both are excellent. I would probably actually lean towards the MV7, uh, even though it's literally one and a half times the price of the pod mic, so that's a contributing factor.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

I didn't like the pod mic.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

Well, the reason being is because USB and XLR.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

Is that road?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

Well, no, no, no. I can I can go. The this is USB XLR, so it's more versatile. Um the pod mic is XLR only. That's also why it's less expensive. The pod mic is a really great sounding mic, but it has a really specific character, so it doesn't always sound great on every voice. Um, if you have the right kind of voice, I think Heather actually sounds really good on it, but she didn't like it. Um, some people sound amazing on it and some people don't. It really like emphasizes the highs. Um, you can EQ all that out, but just it's natural character, doesn't work for every voice. The MV7 being like kind of created in the mold of the SM7B is a bit more neutral, and that means it's just a little bit easier to work with a wider range of voices and a little like more neutral of a sound that you can then add your flavor to if you want to EQ it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

So um, I always saw you two as coaches not motivational.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

Yeah, I seek to be demotivational. You can't do this, you'll never win.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:30

You're just pragmatic clickbait, in my opinion, is legit as long as you deliver the goods and don't manipulate your audience for clicks. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:39

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

I think clickbait has the negative connotation, but it it really is like making something interesting. I don't know, marketing.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

I mean, it's I think of billboards because if you're driving down the freeway and you only have so much real estate. Yeah, there could be a billboard that's like, we're a local restaurant and we try really hard, but like some of our dishes are actually a little bit better than others. We redid our dessert menu. I think you should really try it. You're gonna like it, but sometimes the service is slow, we're growing like versus like best desserts in town.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Done.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

Like, you know, and then they gotta make the best desserts they possibly can.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

We want Tom to have gas, his reviews are not forceful, and they allow you to make a fair decision. Um, I love Peter Lingrid's Volks channel, maybe even more than his big YouTube. Yeah. Uh Mihaw, I hit 260 subs tonight, and I'm calling myself a legit YouTube content creator.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

Because you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:29

I mean, seriously. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

Um, anyone knows how you can tag people in the chat on the YouTube app on your phone? You can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

It's so that's why if I'm so if I'm in a live stream chat with you and I don't do it, it's because I don't want to type in like a long name. It's very frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Tomzo Wamzo. What's the breakdown of people who watch your videos, subs versus unsubs? Oh, that's a good question. Do you have your phone?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

Oh, I can grab it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

Get your phone, babe. I don't even know what mine is now that I've uh I have two vlogs up. Let me uh pull this up. We're gonna look at analytics. Where is this under reach? Reach.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:09

Um audiences wait.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

Oh here. So mine in the past 28 days, 61% subscribed, 39% not subscribed.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Mine are 25% subscribed, 75% not subscribed.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:32

In the last 28 days.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

That's actually up higher, so it's kind of cool. But in a way, you kind of want the not subscribed watching because it's new people.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

Yeah, it's new people. That was a serious question. Hey Preston, good to see you. Let's see. So, what's the one bad you what's the one bad advice you would say? Definitely don't fall in this trap or error.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

I my thing that I always say is don't do what the big channels are doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

Because you can look at um, you know, so for example, the thing here in Analytics has other videos your audience watch, and the number one one is Peter McKinnon. Uh, I did a video today that was like, how I store my camera gear. Uh, and it did not perform well on my channel. It's a great video. I love it, it's fine, but it did not perform as well as I would have liked it to. If you look up camera gear storage on YouTube, one of the first videos that pops up with the most views, almost a million views, is Peter McKinnon's like my camera gear storage video. That's the power of being in that position. It's a good video, and he's doing really cool stuff, and you kind of want to see, like, dang, this is crazy. Um, it's at a different level, of course, but also it's like he doesn't need to put in tags, doesn't have to necessarily even type out a description, doesn't have to do any of that and know what two buddy is. Yeah, like literally, yeah. Uh I did hear him in a podcast where he was like, he didn't know what TubeBuddy was and stuff, but it's you're in that position where you don't need to do those things to succeed, but then people with smaller channels will look at those kinds of channels and go, I'll just do what they're doing. They're not, they're not checking those boxes that were good practice in 2016. They're not hurting your channel now. Um, this person, like a big thing that I saw recently was uh there was a whole Twitter thread about how Netflix approaches YouTube thumbnails or how Netflix approaches thumbnails because they're not just taking the movie posters anymore, they're actually making thumbnails for shows and movies, taking clips and screenshots or whatever, and like making a thumbnail. And it's interesting because you're seeing like Hollywood industry try to do the kind of thing that like YouTube has been doing for years.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

They're trying to be more like YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

And if you look at a Netflix thumbnail in terms of like composition and clarity, I think you could learn a lot. Like the text is very legible, you can see kind of what it's about. Um, but the thread I was reading was a bunch of people were were talking about like, look at that. It's just like the title and a person, and the title and a person, and like, yeah, because the person is Brad Pitt or whoever, you know, like if you're just sitting there smiling on your thumbnail, it might be a beautiful picture that your mom will love. But someone who doesn't know you doesn't care. Yeah. Which is why, as much as we all like might bemoan them, those like crazy shocked YouTube faces, it doesn't matter who you are, you recognize the emotion, and that's what grabs the attention. So it's like it if you look at Netflix and you're like, oh look, they're just putting like a really nice picture of someone and a title, and that's a great thumbnail. It is when the person is a famous celebrity. Yeah, it's gonna be good. When it's us in our room, maybe you need something else. So, point being what the large people are doing, while it can be interesting, and you can always, you know, go to Marquez Brownley's channel and look at his thumbnails and realize like what makes things really pop, like inanimate objects really pop out in a thumbnail, you'll find it. Um, but don't always just go like that's what the biggest are doing, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna run my channel like a big channel, because no.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

Kevin says reality check having 100, 200, 400 people sub to your channel is awesome. Celebrate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Well, just imagine being in a room with 100 people. Yeah, that's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

And like it's just a it's just such a cool thing that we're all doing. And I I wish, you know, it's like I I definitely wish I owned it earlier, but whatever. Yeah, you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. Clickbait is just effective communication. Yes, not being able to tag on iPad or iPhone sucks. Um, how did it feel to do vlogs again? So much fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

She's having such a great time. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

I can't, I I feel so like invigorated with everything in life. And I think a big part of that has to do with with the vlogs. I I don't know, it's funny because I I have I have thought about vlogging so much, but I haven't felt this like energy I feel today, which is which is why I'm glad I waited because clearly I I needed to feel this. Like I just feel ready. I don't know. I'm I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

One of my favorite things about vlogging, not that I've done a lot of it in any.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:08

Well, I consider my vlog like our vlog. I know. I hope you know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:11

No, I know, but I mean like I'm talking about when like I'm setting out to like make a like you know, I'm the one putting it together and doing all that kind of stuff. Is you start to just view your day and your world differently.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:23

Yeah, because it's like, wow. Like all of this is a story. Yeah, like look at the clouds.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

That would be a cool time lapse because the clouds are moving, and now you're paying attention to how beautiful the clouds are. You're thinking, like, hey, you know, like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:37

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:38

Like you're you're just sort of looking at things through a different lens that like gives you a different perspective and frames them. It's really fun. Views can't take that away. Encapsulate that, yeah. Encabulate that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Peter says the crowd, not me, would be so much happier if Tom created more canon content.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:54

Well, Canon, that's up to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:57

Sean is asking, love the snow vlog. What 360 camera did Tom use in it? And when is the next vlog coming? Okay, I'll answer the second question. The next vlog is coming tomorrow. I wanted to publish it today, but I didn't want to publish on the same day that we were doing the couples table. So it's coming out tomorrow. And then what I think we're gonna do for the next one after that is specifically a 360 uh video. The whole thing is gonna be a 360 uh vlog, and I'm so excited about it because uh I have something to show you, but Tom and the dogs are gonna be doing things, and because it's 360, you'll you guys will be able to scroll and like see what they're doing at the same time because they're gonna be like on the other side. I'm very excited for this video. I maybe we'll do it this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:42

Um the camera is the Insta3601x2.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:47

Um if you if you saw the snow vlog, the the most recent vlog I just uploaded, uh you know, all the really cool camera angles, that's this camera.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

Especially if we're both in the shot and the camera's moving still.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

What's cool about this thing is that it takes out the stick.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:03

Yeah, it it comes with a stick that it mounts. It comes like a tripod stick. But somehow magically you don't even have to do anything, it just gets rid of it in the image.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:11

So you can literally walk with it on a stick, but it looks like someone's following you with a camera. It's it's really freaking cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

There's a shot of of me um holding the stick out the car window. Yeah, and you could see the stick's shadow, right? So you could see like I was holding something out there, but you can't actually see the stick because the the thing like takes it out. So that that there's it's like right at the beginning. If you want to see what that shot looks like, it's so cool. And then Tom using the app um was able to edit the keyframes where yeah, it's a 360 video, but you can set keyframes so that you know it's a you don't have to publish a 360 video. Yeah, it's a flat image or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:49

You can like like they have an app that comes with it. Last time I did a 360 cameras a few years ago, and it was like such a process to process the footage. But this they have a phone app and a desktop app that like is so easy to use because you can literally just like very anybody could do it, add in keyframes to be like, okay, the camera's gonna go here at this point. We want it to be pointing over there, and then it will just move, and you can just like literally click and drag to track an object. So, like our dog Finlay's running through the snow, and I just dragged it and it just tracked him, and the camera moves like somebody is panning a camera. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:22

Uh Raphael says, Evergreen content has allowed my channel to keep growing, even though I haven't uploaded in almost six weeks. Yes. I mean, my tutorial channel still gets views, even though I haven't uploaded in months.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

So I mean, yeah, I was gonna say there are people who have passed away whose channels continue to grow.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:40

Yeah. Dang, you took it there.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:43

I did, but it's like because the content is so freaking useful.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:46

I feel like big channels can experiment more, so I know I love that video today. Thank you. Leo says it didn't perform well. I really enjoyed watching it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:51

I love the video. It's it's one of those things that's such an unsexy topic. Like, how do you how do you make it um I think it is a sexy topic?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:59

Gear tour. Like, that's isn't that what everyone wants to see? I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:04

I mean, you know, hey, if it if it's not performing well, it's probably on me for title and thumbnail, but god, I tried so many different iterations.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:10

He changed it so many. We went to the gym, he changed it before we went to the gym, he changed it in bed, like 6 a.m., had the laptop in bed, and was like redoing a thumbnail. I fell back asleep, and then we went to the gym, he came back home, he changed it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

Well, also, it's it, you know, the video had been scheduled for a while, so I've been like thinking about it. And it's probably just my framing. What would have been good probably is to do like a before-after. Like, here's messy closet, clean one, but I don't know. I don't know. So I did the best I can do at this point, and now my hope is that like YouTube figures out where the video needs to go. Because I really I'm I had so much fun with that video. It's the one I shot in anamorphic with an anamorphic lens.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:51

Everyone go watch that video, yeah. Leave a comment.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:55

It's so it's such a fun video.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:57

Um says people say you can't jump around and do something different outside of your niche. I found this to be untrue. A good video is a good video, regardless of the niche of your channel, and can blow up.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:06

That's true, but you you do want to when something blows up, like if you do camera videos and then you do uh how to make a grilled cheese video and it blows up, the people who the grilled cheese video bring in might be expecting more cooking videos, and then you're gonna show up with a camera review.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:22

So it's yeah, so they can't you know it's like the um the longevity that you get out of a viewer versus a subscriber.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:31

So yeah, I don't say that to downplay your point. I just say that because Heather had to unlist her most popular video because it was bringing in like the wrong crowd.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:38

Oh yeah. Um, I have the same experience, not uploaded for four weeks, so I've had still have had the same small growth that I had before with regular uploads. Every green content is key. You do you do your old stuff still get views?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:53

Yeah. That's great. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:55

That's silly. No one can do what Peter McKinnon does. He is his own person. A large part of why people watch his videos is because of his personality. Exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

And that's it's funny because some of the, I don't want to say worse, but the probably least helpful, most poorly put together camera videos, going back to what Heat was saying a while ago, are from people who are professional cinematographers, um, who obviously are not doing YouTube as a career or anything, but it's because even though they have all the knowledge and stuff, they don't know how to teach it or explain it. They know how to set up a very moody shot and kind of talk awkwardly for too long without giving you real information. Whereas then you have like a YouTuber who doesn't have experience, but they can give you the info you need in an entertaining way in six minutes or whatever. Um, that's a whole separate skill set that all 360 cameras remove a stick.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

Even the first generation cameras, I was shocked because those never blew up.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:46

I don't know. Really? My the one I had didn't. Oh I don't sorry, the one we had at my work in. It was an old Samsung one.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:52

Um Well, though the only 360 camera I played with um like didn't come with a stick. You know, like you you were I don't know why I didn't put it on a tripod. Oh no, I put it on a tripod.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:05

They've all had they definitely all had mounts on them.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:07

Oh maybe it didn't really put it on a stick. I uh yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:12

Mine mine didn't. If you if you like look down where the stick was, it was literally a black dot in the screen.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

What's in my gear closet? 2022. He's gonna change it, he's gonna change the title. Thank you, Leo.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:29

Let's see, Leo.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

How many times have you changed a title?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:33

I don't know, five.

unknown 1:22:34

Five times.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:36

I'm just trying to get it to be nine out of ten. That's all. That's all I'm going to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:39

What's in my gear closet? 228. Thanks, Leo.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:42

He even put it in all caps.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:46

Let's see. My wife saw it and said, that's it. We need to fix your office. Uh let's see. That one, the other one you posted later in the day is at 40k. You posted a video later in the day?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:02

Um a couple weeks ago I did, but it actually it was the can I'm canon one. Because Raphael was like, hey, you know, like just a thought. Maybe like have you ever thought of playing with a different time or whatever? Because my posting time is not super convenient for a lot of people who are on like the Midwest and the East Coast of the United States, and then you know, beyond that. Um so I played around with doing three hours later a couple weeks ago, and it actually had zero effect on the like first 24 to 36 hours of the video. Uh, but it was more inconvenient for me. So I went back to the normal time because if there's no difference in that first time, but it's one is more convenient to me than the other. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna be selfish.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:48

Do you guys update 5e thumbnails?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:51

Can I see how Leo wrote that? It looked like such a real title.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:55

What's in my gear closet 2022 in caps? He put caps, but I don't he do Tom doesn't do the all caps. I am a big fan of all caps and and no caps. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:04

My thumbnail is all caps.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:07

Oh my gosh. You are looking at details.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:10

I know, but like let's just see. Let's just see. I changed it, Leo.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:17

You changed it because of you, Leo. All right, here we go. Uh let's see. Do you update thumbnail of the video a few days after posting? Heard some people do that to re-engage people who haven't clicked it before.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:29

Here's a strategy. Uh a few days later, usually not, but sometimes. Something I noticed though, we talked about this um having faces or no faces in thumbnails. Very dependent on your specific channel. So I can't give what I have found in mine is that when I make a video that has my face in it, in the thumbnail, it does way better at first and then worse later on. When I do a video that does not have my face in it, it's quite it's question mark at first. It could do better or worse, but it tends to perform stronger later on. And my thought is because the face, the people who are gonna see the video when it's first uploaded in a day or two are the people who probably like you the most. So they recognize you, they know you, they want to see your video. After that, yeah, the people who find the video are people who don't know you, and so they're not gonna care to click on it. So I haven't done this, but I've even thought about like, here's my first thumbnail, which will be like a thumbnail with a face. Here's my next thumbnail, which is the not face thumbnail.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:33

I saw this and I started drooling.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:37

They're so good. Now I want a cookie.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:40

Oh, yeah, those cookies were great.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:41

Hi, Peter, saying hello to an awesome couple. Megan's here. Hey y'all, bit late, but looking forward to rewatching.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:47

Um, Peter, I actually have been meaning to text you lately. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry I haven't been super active and involved in your stream. I've been there, but it's been a ridiculous several weeks, and it's just been super busy, but uh not because I haven't forgotten to be there.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:03

It's been a crazy couple weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:04

It's been ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:06

Oh my gosh. Okay. I don't go right to the gear closet videos because I barely have any gear.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:10

That's why you want to live vicariously.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:13

You should visit North Dakota if you like snow.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:17

Well, we like convenient snow. We don't want to shovel out our car park.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:23

Uh the all caps is more of a joke. Tom's videos today is very helpful. Been redoing my studio to get more organized, definitely gave me some good ideas.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:29

Yeah. I was able to get this camera so quickly because it was stored in a very organized way.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

Uh, Chris could not have bet on that and win the bet. Yes, those Santa cookies are pretty darn good. Yeah. Tom, I think you should do the two thumbnail strategy. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

That's kind of interesting. There is a channel I follow follow that's a food review channel.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:46

Because your content is evergreen like crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:49

A lot of it is, yeah. Yeah. Um there's a food review channel that has well over a million subscribers, and he uploads a lot of videos, but for the first like five or six hours, it's literally one of the YouTube thumbnails, like just face looking at food or whatever, just screen capture. And then it moves to like here's the graphic and the restaurant logo and that. But I've noticed he like purposely keeps it up for a long time, the the very low budget looking thumbnail, and then switches to the it has to be a I've noticed it like 20 times.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:18

It has to be a super intentional, yeah. Uh let's see. Chris is super late, but can't wait to watch the entire replay. Uh, where was a delicious grilled cheese?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:27

Oh, it uh what's the channel? Um oh my god. Not another cooking show.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:33

I thought you were talking about the grilled cheese we had in the snow video, but this makes worse sense because you can't probably go to Idlewild. Start a new job. Congrats. Whoa, what?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:43

You'll have to fill me in on that. I didn't know there was even a transition happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:46

It's been busy, busy, busy. I have I have I seen have you uploaded Disney World stuff? Did I miss that? Did I did I miss that? I want to see that. I also really want to go to Disneyland. I thought I was over it because my room. My mate worked at Disneyland. My brother worked for Disney. I can go in free, like all the time. And I was like, I think I'm never gonna care to go back to Disneyland. I want to go with you, bib.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:08

I love it. It's just too expensive. Like.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:12

Look at his face.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:13

It makes me mad that it's that expensive, but that's a topic for another day.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:16

That's a different podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:19

If only Gil said if there's only a way to have multiple thumbnails, one for the subscribers, subscribers, one for the non- That would be cool. I would love it if you could do real A B testing natively through YouTube. Here's I'm gonna upload two thumbnails. YouTube works.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:32

Two buddy does it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:33

They do, but I don't like the way that they do it. So here's advice. Because what TubeBuddy will do is you can upload two thumbnails and it will run an A-B test. It will run one thumbnail for a day, the next thumbnail for a day, and then give you the results and you can pick the most effective one. Problem with that is YouTube really looks at that first 48 hours of data, data, however you want to call it, as like very crucial to where to send the video. And so if half of that time is spent with an ineffective thumbnail, you're hurting yourself. And I I just can't willingly do that, which is why like I figure if YouTube could do it with the magic of being native to the algorithm, it could like it could really know like these are people who click on thumbnails with faces, these are people who click on bright colors, and like you could really get a lot more like accurate data.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:22

Any thoughts on the Ulanzi gear tree?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:24

I haven't used it, but somebody just the other day in one of my comments talked about or sent me a photo of it, and it seemed kind of awesome. And Heather just got the Ulanzi wide-angle lens for the ZB1, and it's great. So um they seem to make good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:38

Because of Tom, I had to dish out bucks on a shotgun mic. I think it was the colour looking.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:45

Um, Netflix has different thumbnails for different account types. They do change a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:50

Um, it is I randomly found myself on a video you did three years ago comparing 70 to 200 canon signal.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:56

That still has one of my favorite B-roll shots I've ever done in that video.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:01

Oh, big changes.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:04

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:04

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:07

Yes to native thumbnails.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:09

YouTube has been promising that for ages. Like they said that natively. That'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:13

I'm sure it's a nightmare to figure out.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:15

I know, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:16

I mean, but like it would be super helpful to for me to just give you thumbnails and they decide which one's the best to serve.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:23

Yeah, like you find what's more effective based on all your you know, data.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:27

And if I don't want them to make that decision, I will just give one thumbnail.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:31

Whoever that is probably loads and goes live and then makes the thumbnail, or he hires someone different to make the thumb after the guy gets the flavor of feeling of the video.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:40

Yeah, I'm sure it's something like that, but at this point, I f I feel like because there is by Leo, there's something uh very kind of charming about like where it does seem like it's just someone like in their car with their phone talking to you about a burger they're eating, versus like here's a production that I made. And so I think it it might be to get two different audiences. Um because I also feel like with a seven-figure channel and not timely videos, like you know, you can review like a Burger King Whopper anytime, like they could just wait for this the thumbnail to come in. So I feel like it's a strategy and it's interesting to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:21

Oh great. Now we have to make two thumbnails.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:24

I know. But if you you know, sometimes you really get stuck, like it's a difference when it's like, should the text be green or the text be white? It's like okay. But if you have two, somebody has two totally different ideas for a thumbnail. Yeah, like face or no face, that's a pretty yeah, like completely different, and you want to know which one's more effective, I think it'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:44

As an option, not a requirement.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:46

I will change my thumb after a while when I realize better what I actually did in the video. And Amazon Prime has multiple thumbnails.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:52

Yeah, it's interesting to see how those big companies are doing the thumbnail thing. We have gone over 90 minutes now. Okay. Well, thank you all for sticking around. We had a fun chat, and I think we actually like talked about some helpful stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:04

We hope you guys found that helpful. But um I guess though, to sum up, let's summarize really quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:14

Yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:16

Oh, I looked at you. Okay. Uh you should own your journey as a YouTube creator, regardless of how many subscribers, or regardless of how many videos you've made. If you have the desire and willingness to embark on this journey that is YouTube because you believe that you have a story worth sharing, own being a YouTube creator. You do not have to cross a milestone or whatever. You are doing it. You're already doing it. Okay. So that's number one. Number two, um, YouTube in 2022 is super different for everybody. What works for somebody else is not necessarily gonna work for you. Uh, and there is no template, there's no step one, step two, step three. You know, you can follow the exact same steps as somebody else and get completely opposite results.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:09

You can learn a lot by analyzing and seeing what other people are doing, get ideas, but you can't copy and paste.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:14

I think I think we talked about that earlier. Uh being part of a community, talking to other YouTube creators, seeing what other people are doing helps you be able to know your options. But at the end of the day, like you, I feel like it's so much of a personal journey now that it's just it's up to you and how you want to deliver the content, what you want to talk about, how you want to stylize it, all of that. So have fun with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:40

All right. My stomach is growling now, so I gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:43

Clear the table.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:47

Okay. What well thanks. Do we have an outro?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:51

You don't have like a graphic.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:52

Oh, I gotta make the outro screen.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:54

Thanks for spending your time with us. We really appreciate it. Hope you have a safe, happy, healthy, fun rest of your week, and we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:00

Bye, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:04

Are we just on the screen? I don't have an outro yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:09

But I liked how everyone had a chance to do five last year. You know what I'll do?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:15

I will do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:31

Bye everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:43

Yeah, it is nice to get back to sign out. Hey Jean, hi Gene. Hi Jean. Hi.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:52

Watch watch the next vlog, it'll be out tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:56

Bye everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:57

Goodbye.